More Pie
 

First year, we had a game called "If all the male shareholders in the Litigation group were thrown into prison, who would be the first to get raped?" Personality traits that made some of the partners tools, like coming on as a tough guy were seen as potentially backfiring in prison. Chubby-cute was another factor that moved one of them to the top in my list.

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

1. Refusing to be cordial is the polite equivalent of a verbal assault.

2. Is it really that big of a deal to fake a smile and "Nice to see you?" We only do that, what, 10, 20 times every day of our lives?

3. Ettiquette is being a hypocrite, but we're all hypocrites. You're advocating behaving like Holden Caulfield, which you can bet your farm I'd fucking love to do every goddamn day. The problem with "letting people hav it" politely is that it'll come back and bite you in the ass... just like dicking opposing counsel on a extension or some other lowlife behavior.

S(suck it up... )D

Saw You In Church, Loved What I Saw
 

Every day, I get "Debt reduction the Christian way", "Enlarge your assets the Christian way" ("assets" because my firm's system blocks the word penis), "Christian Mortgages!" or something like that, and yes, Christian singles groups. It's the new hip spam (at least new to me).

WTF?!
 

It is my understnading that the colored folks like to do this. but strangely,. not the Jewish people

and is it porn or porno?

Flamethrowa.
 

I find it baffling that you take such offense to my Chariots of Fire post. It wasn't even intended to be insulting. For someone who has a history of being flameproof, you're awfully sensitive here. Why is that?

Precisely. Thanks.

Well, if you wish to cast this as an epiphany of some sort, knock yourself out. I will note that this epiphany sounds a lot like earlier ones, though. I still vote thinskinned.

Sad proof of the limitations of the Internet. Those on this board who know me will testify that I bear an uncanny resemblance to Michael J. Fox, down to the persistent cough.

Of course, they'll also testifty that when I'm drunk, the facade falls away and I look more like Drew Carey. So, half a point for you.

Gattigap

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

This is just rude.

When Socking Goes Horribly Wrong...
 

Has this been discussed here?

Apparently, our favorite career suicide practitioner who shall remain nameless (initials = PT), spent some time in a Mexico City jail recently after being arrested for shoplifting socks, of all things... And somehow managed to get in a Village Voice article about it.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0335/guthrie.php

(See about 2/3 of the way down)

So PT is a fugitive from Mexican justice? That looks good on the old resume... The CA bar might be interested as well...

Watch out for those socks, Penske. No good can come from them...

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

But . . . but . . . you're being incredibly JUDGMENTAL!! You can't do that! You can't have morals that differ from other peoples' morals! It's . . . it's . . . insulting, and . . . you might make some people think that if they do something bad, someone else might think badly of them! And that's just . . . so . . . uninclusive, or discriminatory, or something!

WTF?!
 

I wrote a very moving and eloquent letter to the manufacturer of my car after a particularly disturbing incident at the car dealership that services it (under warranty, free oil changes, etc.) involving an incorrectly installed oil filter that slipped and resulted in the oil draining out of my car while I was driving it. They sent me a beautiful magazine full of optional crap with their logo on it and a $100 gift certificate with which to purchase said crap. I really would have preferred that they install a brand new engine in my car. I haven't decided yet whether I want the ball cap or the pen and pencil set.

TV Guide
 

Yes, I know someone who has spent much of their life in South Africa. Simply can't understand what someone is saying when they talk about "minorities". It has led to surreal conversations. (Though note that part of this is because combining "oppressed" and "minority" is counterintuitive to him -- "privileged" seems to go better in his world).

WTF?!
 

I could Venn Diagram this but: porn encompasses all pornography; porno just refers to movies...

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

I thought you'd like that.

white guy can't jump/black guy can't swim
 

Well, I might not either - I said its effectively integrated, not non-racist - but you are missing out on some goddamn good food (and Orange Fago).

I, too, share your complaint about namby-pamby delicate stomachs, and agree that it seems, by my annecdotal experience, more a white thing than a black thing. I am totally blown away by what some people consider "spicey" (like, shrimp cocktail sauce?? Breakfast saussage? WTF?). But I get my fondness for aggressive spicey food from my dad, who, as I noted, doesn't pass the pencil test, so YMMV.

Saw You In Church, Loved What I Saw
 

I wonder if setting up a rule in Outlook to delete emails that contain the word "Christian" would backfire on me someday.

TV Guide
 

This isn't a ruckus.

If you don't like "black" and don't use "colored" or "African-American," what exactly do you say? And that's an honest question.

TM

TV Guide
 

My goodness, you negroes can be so picky. Oy.

WTF?!
 

Like I said, free shit.

BTW, I feel your pain (said in Clinton voice). I've had this happen to me as well. Oil completely drained. Engine completely frozen. Wallet completely empty.

Paging DS and Grinchy: Etiquette Q
 

I cannot pretend to speak for Miss Manners (okay, I could, but not with this sock). I have never judged people by the way they manage their affairs of the heart. I have known too many otherwise sane and rational people who appear to have gone absolutely bonkers in these matters.

But what do I really know? Something to consider is that you do not and cannot know all the facts and circumstances involved. So you've become friends with one of the parties involved. That does not mean you are receiving complete and unbiased information. When was the last time a friend told you the real reason he or she was dumped? It's always told in such a way as to reflect badly on the dumper:

"He is emotionally unavailable."

"She is a castrating manipulative shebitch who never believed in me and threw out my favorite t-shirts."

"She cheated on me with my best friend."

"The bastard fucked my sister."

Could there be two sides to the story? Is the dumpee always blameless? Does blame even need to be assigned? Love is not static. Couples come together and sometimes break apart. The "cheaters" are really nothing more than two confused people seeking love to somehow brace themselves against the horror of their otherwise meaningless existence. What's wrong with that?

Your response to the cheaters was fine. I'm sure your discomfort showed through and they got the point. But you should get over your self-righteous indignation. Why do you feel the need to be nasty? Life and love are funny. You may find yourself as one of the cheaters some day.

WTF?!
 

Didn't the incredibly loud ticking sound during the last fifteen miles give it away?

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

An elegant defense of the hypocrisy you usually decry. The cut direct is etiquette's acknowledgment that the world is filled with despicable people, but we are not forced to interact with them. If you're in a service industry and need to avoid alienating them for monetary reasons, you've made a choice. But it isn't a reason to say it's a good thing to ignore a person's bad actions in their private life.

I suspect some of this is coming from a reticence to let our own sexual proclivities become a basis to be judged socially. So let's defuse that. Let me ask you: how do you deal with a person who tells racist jokes? Do you smile politely? Purse your lips in mild disapproval? Say, "Hey, man, be cool"?

How would you interact socially with a man who impregnated a seventeen year old girl, but refused to acknowledge parentage? I would not even return the smile of such a person. Would you?

Paging DS and Grinchy: Etiquette Q
 

I dated a guy in grad school who described every ex-girlfriend as having undergone a radical personality change about 6 weeks into the relationship.

6 weeks later we broke up. He was afraid of intimacy.

I'm not out of town yet, lover, so stop flirting with Fugee!

WTF?!
 

15 seconds. Oil line somehow exploded. Don't ask me how. Oil pressure gauge took about 5 seconds to drop completely. It was one of those "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON??!!!!" things, and then it was over...

white guy can't jump/black guy can't swim
 

So does my non-black father. He used to have it airmailed to him when he did time in Yankee land and other places abroad.

"Lookey that medium-sienna-with-undertones-of-copper fellow over there!"
 

I remember reading, somewhere, that "black" was a reclaimed term of derision - before the '40s or '50s it was thought really insulting to call someone "black" rather than "brown" to refer to their skin color, and even worse to use black rather than negro to refer to their race. Activists challenged the idea that having dark skin was bad by adopting "black" to describe themselves.

This is a really vague memory from LS.

WTF?!
 

I agree. The fact that Bill Walton still has a job announcing anything is a testament to the fact that no one at the networks reads the e-mails.

Paging DS and Grinchy: Etiquette Q
 

Busted. I am so embarrassed. I thought you were out of town already. I feel so indiscreet. I guess I'm going on a few ignore lists.

TV Guide
 

It depends on their shading. You can use caramel, coffee, mocha, cafe au lait for blacks. For hispanics / latinos /spanish/ centralamerican you can use dulce de leche, flan, cafe, cafe con leche etc.

Halle berry = caramel
Selma hayek = dulce de leche
Penelope Cruz = flan
Wesley Snipes = mocha

Only someone reallllly sensitive could be offended by something as innocuous as Flan.

WTF?!
 

Ouch.

Just . . . ouch.

TV Guide
 

You've had people correct you? So what? Even though I wasn't there, I'm pretty sure they weren't offended. If it was someone you know or were friendly with, take a mental note and don't refer to them that way again. If it's someone you'll never see again, no big deal. It's impossible to please everyone. But it's very possible to keep from offending people. "Black" may not fit everyone's requirements, but I doubt you'll ever offend anyone using it.

People from different places want to be referred to in a way that makes sense to them. I sense that many white people are frustrated because they can no longer classify people as easily and may have to put some effort into actually understanding any given person's background. Don't blame me if I shed no tears for the inconvenience.

I believe people were upset with the trend towards "black" because so many fought so hard to get "negro" and "afro-american" accepted and "nigger" and "colored" wiped out. Needless to say, "black" has been an accepted term every place in this country I've been all my life. I have heard people say, "I prefer to be called African-American," but I've never heard anyone get upset about being called "black" (cue posts from people who ran into that person from Nigeria who doesn't like to be called "black" and prefers "African" or "Nigerian").

And you can make any word sound bad if you're a racist. So, I don't really understand your point regarding your saintly grandfather. The point is, the term is accepted today and has been for a very long time.

TM

white guy can't jump/black guy can't swim
 

No. Just coat your stomach with mayo and you should be okay.

TM

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

Actually, she was 16. I beat the shit out of him. No warning, no chitchat, just walked up, threw him to the ground and started pounding on him. The extent of my courtesy was that I didn't bring a weapon with which to inflict permenant damage (in retrospect, a very smart thing). I was still young enough that I got away with my actions. He was old enough that he did not.

10 years (and a bar admission) later I helped her put a garnishment on his wages for back child support.

If I were to run into him on the street, and he were to try to speak to me, I'd probably try to beat his ass again. Some things are just wrong. Fuck polite.

-balt(only fight I've ever been in)assoc

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

And where did this idiotic concept even come from? Of course it's fine to morally judge others, to the extent that you don't harm or restrict the rights of consenting adults. I judge that someone I think is a sexist asshole will not be allowed as a guest in my house. I judge that my friend's gf is a cheating bitch. I judge that my friend is a wingnut to think that birth control's a mortal sin, but I won't force her on the Pill and stop her from her perpetual pregnancies. And I expect that all of my behavior will be likewise judged in return and that people will react accordingly. What's the big deal?

white guy can't jump/black guy can't swim
 

Someone please make a joke involving "County Mayo" and Catholicism (esp. Irish Catholicism). I can't come up with anything but it needs to be done. Atticus?

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

Particularly in this day and age, this is a very easy choice to make. One can keep them as a business acquaintance and still shun them as a social acquaintance. In a world where "business entertaining" is so readily confused with actual social interaction, a majority of the people in the US won't even know the difference to be offended.

W/r/t/ the observation that something more "obvious" than the cut direct would have to be invented to get through thick modern skulls ... I don't think so. I think, particularly when the old ways are so infrequently practiced, they become even more effective. Which, really do you think, is more likely to be lost in the background drone of everyday irritations and rudeness: someone who says "I think you're repulsive, the way you blah blah blah, you should do blech blech blech instead!" or just curses at you, or the person who draw themselves up with frosty dignity and formality and says "I do not know you, sir/madam" and stalks away with no self-righteous explanation? Oh, the latter, to be sure. And the modern must also realize, with bland, meaningless, non-confrontational professional courtesy so generally rampant, someone willing to go to the effort to cut you must be REALLY, EXTRAORDINARILY offended to go to such unnecessary lengths. The shock-value is huge.

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

Well, that might be true with "old ways" that are well-known, but I'd venture that a lot of people wouldn't even recognize the cut direct if it was staring them in the face (or not, as the case may be). It's like one of those uh people who don't eat with their left hand eating with their left hand at your table (or shaking hands with you with their left hand or whatever) -- if you don't know it's an insult, it's ineffective.

WTF?!
 

I was helping someone move when the same thing happened to me. They've since repaved that particular road, but I swear the oil spot is still on the highway whenever I pass. The car was full of furniture, dogs, boxes and people. There was even a windsurfer on the top of it. I think the new engine cost more than I paid for the car.

Speaking of cars, I found out today that, sometimes, my instincts for choosing the faster lane don't work. Generally, I refuse (if I can help it) to get behind dumptrucks, busses, cement mixers, flatbed trucks with makeshift plywood sides, garbage trucks, tractors and anything with a mattress tied on top of it. You'd think that getting in the lane that doesn't have the tractor in it would be the faster of the two. Today, that wasn't the case.

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

This whole concept is an abomination, particularly where participation is a tacit political requirement at one's workplace. People hardly have enough time for their actual friends/family as it is. If a coworker makes that transition, great. But if not, don't we all spend enough time during the week with Bob from Corporate?

OTOH, make me schlep across the country for a meeting that would work just as well by telephone, and you damn well better buy me dinner. But I won't oblige you to join me.

Fugee and the Cheaters
 

But it is self-evidently an insult (the cut indirect isn't, however, to the uninformed). People just no longer know what it means, which makes it stick in the mind.

Or, if you still think it's not extreme enough, buy some gloves, smack them in the face and name your second. Remember that the challenged party gets to choose weapons.

Edited to add: the Clonmel rules: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/sf...ofdueling.html

A relative looks like she's getting screwed by her company and I was wondering if they're legitmately doing so. She got a memo that the company is shutting down for the week of Christmas, but she's being asked to use vacation time for every day but Christmas or otherwise it is unpaid time off.

Anyone ever heard of a policy like this one?

Yes. Tech companies have done this routinely, including shutting down the site from time to time for forced vacations.