Re: Chris Christie
 

It's not confusion, it's categorical description.

I'm not sure how many times I need to say that I understand that you do not believe you are a polytheist, or that I understand that you draw distinction between "God" and other divine beings.

I'm saying that if one is evaluating a religion objectively, any religion that believes in multiple supernatural beings is polytheistic. Given the history of Christianity it's no surprise that you are so defensive about that, but it does not make me ignorant.

And yes, the "holy trinity" is another example of playing word games to create artificial distinctions between themselves and the pagans they wanted to persecute.

It's not particularly relevant here, though, as the alternate "god" that Santorum likes to invoke is Satan. What Rick Santorum says about the evil works that Satan is carrying out in the world makes him sound like a polytheist. He sounds like he believes that there is a supernatural being that is capable of and does act independently of "God." And yes, the whole point is that the characterization would piss him and the voters he's trying to appeal to off.

Re: Chris Christie
 

Oh, any my rather limited understanding world and historical religions suggests that it's not uncommon for even avowedly polytheistic belief systems to include a creator god who may or may not be superior to the others.

Re: Chris Christie
 

And I say you are making up your own definition of polytheism, not following any well-established definition. And if you are making up your own definitions, then there is no point in discussing it further.

Re: Chris Christie
 

Clearly there is no point to this discussion, as my point was how Santorum could be slandered by being labelled a polytheist, not that he actually is one (although I think that's a defensible position, as I've stated).

But I was referencing the legendary push poll that asked whether the voter would could vote for the opposition candidate who didn't believe in Jesus. The opposing candidate, of course, was Jewish.

I always associate that push poll with the Boschwitz/Wellstone campaign, but I can't remember if it was used then or just talked about because it had been used by one of Boschwitz's campaign operatives in an earlier campaign.

If if it's definitions you want, I'm not making them up (emphasis added):

dictionary.com - "the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods."

Merriam Webster - "belief in or worship of more than one god"

Cambridge Dictionaries - "belief in many different gods"

Oxford Dictionaries - "the belief in or worship of more than one god"

MacMillan - "the belief that there is more than one god"

We already covered how the Satan Santorum describes falls under any reasonable definition of "god." He sure seems to believe in that Satan, so I don't know where you are getting tripped up in definitions.

Re: Chris Christie
 

You know, I'm happy to have Santorum talk about Satan. I am happy to have him point out that if everyone is going to talk about his religion, maybe they should talk about Romney's, too. And I am happy because I think most Americans don't want this mixing of religion and politics, and the more this goes on the more people will turn off on the Republicans who so love to mix up their religion and politics.

So you should stop doing it. Let them. Really.

Now, if you want to talk about the doctrine of divine consubstantiality over on the religion board, open a thread and we'll chat.

Re: Chris Christie
 

We do believe in Jesus, we just don't feel he was the messiah. OTOH if he was alive I'd probably consider hiring him to remodel my kitchen.

Re: Chris Christie
 

Take it up with the writer of the push poll.

I don't believe accuracy was his intent.

They say he sprung from the skull of Athena.
 

Gotta give this one to Hank. Well-played, sir.

notes from the front
 

One would think romney ads would tell people that santorum is bat shit crazy and unelectable, point out he seems to be against contraception, quote some of the nuttier stuff.

but the commercials here accuse him of being too similar to hillary clinton in senate voting, as if he is too liberal.

Re: notes from the front
 

Romney's in the tank?

Re: notes from the front
 

http:// http://www.facebook.com/phot...5146242&type=1

If that failed, http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...5146242&type=1

LessinSeoul

Re: Chris Christie
 

Not necessarily Catholics. When I was still pretending not to snicker through the rituals and humor those who attempted to cleave me to the rest of the flock, I recall a significant number of Jesuits explaining, "Yeah, the Satan thing is just symbolism of evil."

It's fundies mostly who hold to the amusing belief there's some fallen angel out there screwing with humanity. Largely the same sorts who believe the the Earth is 5000 years old.

Santorum is not a Catholic as I know the animal. He's mixing Southern Baptist lunacy in with Rome's teachings, which is a no no. Say what we will about the Vatican, it has at least had the intellectual honesty to admit the bible is not ironclad fact, and the common sense to acknowledge Darwin's findings.

(If pressed to commit to a religion, I would first chose Judaism. If barred from that, I'd go with liberal Catholicism. If compelled to declare myself a Southern Baptist, I'd chose a pistol to the side of my skull.)

Re: Chris Christie
 

We sit atop the weakest economic recovery in a hundred years, Europe is on the brink of disaster, war is a real possibility in the Middle East, global warming is giving us Spring in place of Winter and the conversation here, in this Great Republic, is about women's rights to contraception, and whether fantasy figures from religions are pulling the strings around us.

We are a frivolous society. We may muddle through this mess and find a new morning in America somewhere down the road. But we sure as hell don't deserve it. Whatever good we find can only come to a people as incurious, superstitious, and proud of their backwardness as opportunity comes to the stupid sons of successful men. If not for the legacy advantages given us by better generations before, we'd be utterly fucked.

That a fool like Santorum is even running should cause every modestly intelligent American extreme embarrassment.

Re: Chris Christie
 

What we should be talking about is how long this board should ban ty and GGG and getanap and the rest of them that repeatedly quoted a child molester on this board, and alleged that the perv's version of "truth" shows an elected President of the United States was wrong.

Re: Chris Christie
 

Careful, Sebby, that they haven't changed their name on you.

FWIW, it doesn't seem like it will work for them. It's not like people dislike Southern Baptists because of a split over slavery more than a century ago. Mostly, people find plenty of theological jackassery by Southern Baptists in the here and now, and pretending that a name change will fix it is pretty damn stupid.