Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Why is that all that really matters? That is the underlying assumption in all of this. Why must we pretend that a playoff in football gives us much-needed certainty.

But regardless, it won't end the argument over who should be the champion. There will be a year when Boise State loses one game and doesn't make the 8 team playoff, and plenty of people (mostly tv and radio talking heads) will insist that we don't really know if USC is the rightful champion because they lost once two and never had to play Boise State.

ETA: Right now number 9 in the BCS is undefeated Boise State.

Re: Coke with Stevia
 

Nothing. But the Austrian coffee shop that I sometimes frequent on my way back from court has little packets of it that I put in my cafe au lait. I like.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Hoops is a bad parallel. the record of the #1 v. #16 games mean the excluded teams were simply excluded from a fun filled week until they lose Thursday or Friday- they can't really claim to have had a chance at #1.

The Bowl system wouldn't help Boise State because it wouldn't be playing the #1 team under the old bowl system AND under the old Bowl system Ohio State would have likely been #1 after a glorious Rose bowl win the past years.

Thurgreed is right. A playoff would make #1 surer. If they can stretch to 16 teams, I really cannot image the #17 team have any complaint that it could have been #1.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

They both suck. There should be a playoff.

That is complete bullshit. Any team that goes through the playoff system and wins is the champion. The only people in your scenario who would be whining after that happens will be Boise State. And again, no one gives a shit. If you're not good enough to be ranked in the top fucking five even, you have no claim.

TM

Re: Coke with Stevia
 

I've heard that it causes intestinal distress in some.

I have not tried it my own self.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Well, obviously a playoff is better.

But the analogy is better than you think. The bubble teams in hoops end up as #10 or #11 seeds. Seeds 12-16 go to all the single-team conferences or some team that happened to win their conference tournament despite otherwise sucking.

But anyway, I don't think you can say a #9 team has any more beef. Look at Hawaii last year (?)--undefeated, in the BCS, and got totally smoked in the Sugar Bowl.

Sure, there going to be arguments over who are the 8, but as TM points out, make the top 5 or top 3 and get in--that's usually where the debate is anyway. This is a pretty rare year where there are at least 5 teams that could claim to be #1 (2 BCS, texas--beat OK, USC-one road loss in Sept., Penn St.--one point loss on road)

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

How so? While being 1 (or 2) mattered less with bowls, it still mattered. And, worse, the old bowls rarely set up a matchup that was 1 vs. 2, or even 1 vs. an arguable 3 or 4. 1 vs. 2 is the best matchup for determining the best team, and the BCS at least does a better effort of matching 1 vs. 2, rather than just nearly random assortments of games. Its shortcoming is picking who actually is 1 and 2, as this year.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Penn State is good, but they have no claim to No. 1, even if they hadn't lost to Iowa. The Big Ten sucks. That and OSU was going to beat them if Pryor hadn't fumbled.

USC is going to kill them.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

If you believe this (and I happen to agree), there isn't much reason for a playoff either.

But these are the arguments that the regular season exists to settle. Really, we are talking about which of the which of the champions of the SEC, Big Ten, PAC Ten and Big Twelve should be playing for the championship. I just don't see the injustice two of them being left out of the big bowl.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

You forgot at least the ACC (Miami and Florida State used to be good . . . )

But that aside, you don't see a problem that Texas is left out despite beating Oklahoma at a neutral site mainly because the tiebreaker rules of the Big XII put OK into the title game?

(yes, I realize that's an argument against the Big XII tiebreakers, but you're relying on the regular season to settle things, which it didn't because certain teams won't play others, which is also true of plenty of interconference matchups).

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Wishful thinking.

How is this any different than saying "if you aren't good enough to be in the top two even you have no claim?"

But my point is to separate the two underlying motivations for a playoff. You are focusing on certainty. I don't place much value on that, but fine. But you could easily get the same result with the plus one (or a four team playoff).

The other motivation is inclusiveness, with the non-BCS conferences, and the folks in the media that champion their cause, complaining that the Boise States of the world go undefeated but still never get the chance to play for the championship. There beef isn't totally unfounded, but you can't solve this "problem" unless you have at least 8, but more likely 16 teams in a playoff. There are ways to make either happen, but they involve throwing basically the entire college football tradition, for the 1 in 100 shot that Boise State pulls off a string up unlikely upsets.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Some of us appreciate the delicious irony of it all and still secretly pray for Mack Brown to experience extreme humiliation on National TV. Some of us have also bought industrial-grade laxatives and have discretely inquired as to the chain of custody of the coaches' sideline waterbottles.

Personal note
 

The Messiah rocks.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

I didn't forget them. I named the four that most frequently in the discussion.

No. Someone is always going to be left out. Let the Big Ten champ play the PAC Ten champ, and the Big East champ play the ACC champ (ideally Big 12 would also play SEC) and vote. It is certainly no less accurate than the current system, and only marginally less accurate than adding a fourth game and making a playoff.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

I think you could safely leave the Big east out of the equation (at least where football is concerned) most of the time.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

There's one underlying motivation for a playoff: It's how we decide champions in the United States. And it's the only way to decide champions when it's not possible to have every team play every other team (as some european soccer leagues do).

There's one underlying motivation against a playoff: Money--the bowls want to keep it, the BCS wants to keep it, and the NCAA, including all the other teams, want to spread it more evenly.

Anything else is intellectual masturbation and self-interested justification.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

. . . in the last few years.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

This is by far the worst kind of masturbation.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Yeah, and poor Atticus has gone intellectually blind by now.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

We need January madness. All the teams meet in places like New Orleans, Memphis, and Syracuse to play three games of football a week. Top 64 teams, just so we can be sure there's not a sleeper out there.

Think what a boon it will be for the healthcare system! I hope the football players aren't capitated.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

if the "bubble" team is say the regular season winner of no-name conferecne that lost its playoff it is a 14-16. But you mean the "bubble" team that finish 6th in the ACC, and would be a 10 seed? Fuck them. They finished 6th. Maybe they could go on a run and win, but the fact remains they got beat already by a bunch of teams in their conference who are in the Playoffs.

The problem is different in football because of the Boise State's who haven't played ANY of the top teams, and the requirement that picking some team for #1 and #2 means you have to do mental gymnastics to explain why one team's one loss is less bad than the other team's one loss. With today's dragging out of the bowls, timewise we are already at a point where we could be doing an 8 team playoff. If we can go another week longer to 16 no one has a legitimate bitch.

They'd have to use some of the non-BCS bowls, but two good teams would bring in money and there would be interest as they progress. The one question would be whether any team's alums could afford, in dollars or time, to travel to bowl games four weeks in a row.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

If only he wasn't cursed by his short refractory period.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Is that like being fenestrated?

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Maybe on the PB.

For the appropriate FB joke, cf. TM's Tips.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

The latter is what I was thinking of. I don't remember as much "bubble" talk about teams from no-name conferences except in very rare situations because usually even the champ wouldn't be in except for the automatic bid.

I'm not worried about alums--they'll travel. If they don't, these games would sell out anyway. Worst case, have first round games on campus sites.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Good non-response. How is it wishful thinking? If you're going to talk about sports reporters and pundits, then I'm not sure we need to be having this conversation because they need to cause controversy to get people to read their stories and watch their shows.

Is this a serious question? If you are ranked 9th, how could you possibly claim that you deserve to be in the championship game? If you are undefeated and are ranked third, you have a legitimate argument. If you are ranked 9th and you don't make the playoffs, I and almost everyone else in the world, don't really give a shit. You seem to think we'll have the same kind of controversy as we do now. And either you're crazy or you're just being hard-headed.

I didn't think we were arguing about the type of playoff (although, now that you brought it up, if you're going to have a plus one system, why not just have an actual playoff system?). I simply said there should be a playoff system.

I have no problem with an 8 or even a 16 team playoff. And I don't care about college football tradition either. It's only tradition until it's changed in favor of something better (like the fight everyone had over the wildcard).

I also don't care about the Boise States of the world under the current system, the old system or any future system.

TM

Michigan Law Prof and 2L Hooker
 

In case you haven't been following the saga of the Michigan 2L hooker/psycho and the Michigan Law professor who purchased her services, and allegedly beat her, have fun - http://abovethelaw.com/2008/12/michi...ds_to.php#more . The link is his version. Hers can be found in another link at the bottom of the page.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

BYU won a MNC under the old system. Not that I find the old system preferable, just sayin'. I'd be for a playoff, but one of the problems will be an insistence that conference champions be given an automatic berth. The Sunbelt plays some pretty entertaining football, but there's no way Troy would be either Florida or Oklahoma this year. A 16-team playoff based on Week 16 rankings would be entertaining, seeing Texas face the winner of the MAC, not so much.

Dan Wetzel published the first of a two-part series today on just how screwed up the bowl system is. For me, any pretense of Tradition went out the window when they started selling their naming rights. Stewart Mandel's book, Bowls, Polls, and Tattered Souls is also a good read on the subject.

Weird text message
 

I just got a text message from an unknown number that said "Passport and wire sent."

No answer from the unidentified phone call, no response to my WTF text.

Weird? Somoene looking for Jason Bourne? Am I Jason Bourne?

Re: Michigan Law Prof and 2L Hooker
 

RT called those Tutorials, right?

second place joke: Stupid me, I instead chose to get fucked by the loan companies for years.

Re: Michigan Law Prof and 2L Hooker
 

Translation: I'm the Boise State of Lawtalkers.

Re: Coke with Stevia
 

A woman I used to date cooked with it. It's very similar to fructose in taste only sweeter, i.e. you need to use less when you cook with it.

Re: Michigan Law Prof and 2L Hooker
 

Move up from D-III to D-II, and then maybe, just maybe, you can't start with the insults.

Re: Weird text message
 

No. You're Douglas Quaid from Total Recall.

Not enough people dress up as George/Kuato for Halloween.

Re: Michigan Law Prof and 2L Hooker
 

Interesting story, but I think we're all just waiting to see a new Hank avatar.

http://www.umich.edu/~hjcs/images/photo_eliav.jpg

TM

Re: Coke with Stevia
 

In my epxerience with it, I was not aware of such affects. some of the artificial sweeteners can have that affect though, or so I am told by dietary experts with special expertise in sweeteners.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Syracuse? Syracuse?! Do they even play football there still?

Kidding aside (sorry BNB), you bring up another issue with playoffs. Most fans won't be able to afford to fly their families to San Diego one week, Miami the next, and New Orleans the week after that. For it to work, you'd have to give homefield advantage to the higher seed, like they do in the NFL, until the championship game.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Ah. The un-American argument. Always a winner.

Except of course for the hundred plus years of college football tradition that undermines the argument.

As you implicitly admit, there is only one real motivation for a playoff too. Other conferences want more of the money, or to put it more accurately think they will occassionally be one of the eight teams selected to play in the playoff.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

Because in the year like this one (and several of the last few), there will be lots of people who think it is an outrage that Boise State doesn't get to be one of the 8 teams in the playoff.

I don't know, maybe you are undefeated, and you point out that ranking system is influenced by polls that undervalue your non-BCS conference, and BCS conference contenders are afraid to play you in the non-conference because they don't want to risk an upset so you can't improve your stength of schedule.

Re: put down the pitchforks
 

am i on ignore?