Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

“Poor kids are just as capable of white kids.”

It’s not just that he’s a gaffe machine, it’s that he says cringeworthy things that seem to suggest something.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I'd agree there is a question there, and a tough one. What I haven't seen anyone do, including Lessig, is really crystallize that question in a clear argument grounded in the constitution and caselaw. Lessig's first response was "this is plainly unconstitutional", and, whatever it is, it isn't "plainly". Strike 1. His second response was to focus on US v. Classic, which deals with the regulation of primaries and just isn't directly at point. Strike 2.

I think Lessig is suffering here from responding instinctively and somewhat arrogantly before doing the analysis, and I would say that kind of act first, think later approach (cough cough, running for President) is in character. And, let's face it, would be par for the course among us on this board.

That said, I'll be interested in seeing his argument once he digs in and does his homework, because, as you say, he's a pretty bright dude. Right now the argument is coming out piecemeal in the Tribe/Lessig exchange (including things like Lessig's media post). See what it looks like when they're done.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I will say, I really do not believe there is something underlying this on Joe. I think Joe has traveled a journey where he has been among the most liberal members of his generation in politics from the beginning, and that he has a lot of well-earned good will. So I think it is more that he is just a gaffe machine.

He's a really good number 2 guy; I would be thrilled to support him if he wins the primaries. But I'm not convinced he's our best candidate because of stuff like this.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

"when they're done?" This isn't a hypo-

Used to be E. Dt. of Tx had a "rocket docket" and some sick % of patent suits were filed there- and there was this huge volume of Defendants struggling to get a forum change. My client got sued there and I was tasked with getting them out- on a shoe string budget- our local sent me the brief Apple had filed the month before, so I could copy- It is amazing what top firms with no budget limit can do-

The Cali law needs to be challenged ASAP- I can't imagine there is too much time until the ballot needs to be final- in the very near future you will see a brief written by top talent with no budget outlining why it is unconstitutional, then you will see the equally crafted answer. Hell, Tribe may be involved- but like I said, if he's thinking down the road, he might want to be on team Trump.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Translation: I haven't read "White Fragility."

I didn't mean this to sound dickey, but it is almost an example from the book. The man needs to think about this, not brag about how he is no way racist.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

^^^ Man who bills six figures (seven?) contemplating a single punctuation mark urges haste in analyzing complex issues ^^^^^

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I'm not urging haste, the "needs to be" is from Trump's perspective- there will be haste.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You won't be surprised that I think there definitely is. He's an old white dude. The stuff is under there somewhere.

But no, he is not a racist in any way that Sebby would recognize, and when he realizes that his thinking might be less than equitable, I think he cares and tries to change it.

Right. Stuff like this just makes you wonder whether he has enough left in the tank.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

For all of us, this is just the right reaction to anything that raises an issue (or even just an eyebrow). It's all an opportunity to think and change.

Yup
 

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It's silly to see ads for color televisions, because if you can see how good the picture is, then you have a better television already and don't need one. You can use that in one of your Moth things. You're welcome.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Agree completely, but haven't seen a silent "s" in that word before.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Ahh, good one, the type thought that seems wise to a man with an IQ in the 120s.

150ers know that all the ad need do is have the watching actors in the ad smile, because if the actors in the ad smile at their TV, the miserable prole watching the ad will assume he should buy the TV, as it must be better than his lot.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Not everything a hater does is based upon hate. Hitler painted water colors of churches, as an example. Or, Flower; Flower rides bikes.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Do you tell your stories at the MENSA meetings too?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

The foundation of all of my bike rides is hate.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Clearly Hank has never ridden a bike.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

That is definitely a distinction. But "the Constitution does not say that" means very little in Constitutional law, I've discovered. Hell, people are still losing their minds over substantive due process.

You choose to focus on whether the requirement affects a voter's decision. That standard is one you made up completely (and it's not in the Constitution). My just-as-made-up standard focuses on whether the requirement constitutes a possible bar for citizens. Or, in other words, if such requirement actually runs afoul of the actual Constitutional text.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

The stuff you're talking about is actually intended as a bar- they're trying to control the number of names on the ballot- maybe there is a legit state interest in doing that that doesn't exist for "must produce tax returns?"

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Yes. Unconscious bias is in us all. But let me ask you a serious question: Do you think his overwhelming support with black voters is because we all just can't see what you see?

https://gen.medium.com/dont-blame-bl...n-efd652a928ac

I don't think you understand that this is exactly what black people are hoping for when it comes to everyone. Would we rather have a black woman in office? Some would. Some think her position as a prosecutor is disqualifying. But there is one truth we seem to understand better than you. And that's white people. White people aren't going to vote for a fucking black woman not named Michelle Obama or Beyoncé.* At least they're not in the places we need them to and in the numbers required to flip the Senate. Perform this analysis with all the other (legitimate) contenders to whatever degree you need.

This is a legitimate question. I think it's a bit unfair that none of us were given any of the rest of the substance of his remarks and that quotation was the only thing splashed everyfuckingwhere. But, he needs to tighten it the fuck up.

TM

*Okay, it's a sign of real power when you can make all text software bow down to the spelling of your name with an automatic accent mark whenever it's typed.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Again, you have succeeded in pointing out a distinction. Congratulations. I am not arguing whether or not limiting the number of people who can run by requiring them to show broad support is Constitutional. I suppose any such requirement survives even strict scrutiny. I am arguing that requiring tax returns is not a bar to anyone at all. Since it does not, the level of review should be very low.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Right. Those parts were not intended as criticism of Biden.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Capehart:

'One aunt said something my mother said to me nearly a year ago. That it’s going to take a white man to straighten out the mess we’re in. “The way the system is set up now, there is so much racism that it’s going to have to be an old white person to go after an old white person,” my aunt told me. “Old-school against old-school.” She talked further about what this meant for younger candidates such as Buttigieg. “The whole world is in a crazy state, and somebody’s gotta put it back in order. And I think a lot of the young people who want to put it back in order, want to change it completely,” she continued. “But first, you’ve got to put it back in order before you can start changing it.”'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...orth-carolina/

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Everything you say is fair. My focus, though, ties to a question of federalism. The President is the head of the federal government. If a state can impose a ballot-access requirement so long as it is not precluded by the Constitution, there's a lot that states can do to govern federal elections. I see that as inconsistent with the spirit of the Supremacy Clause, and generally problematic. I agree that what I am saying is not in the text of the Constitution itself, but I think I am arguing from a position of fidelity to important constitutional principles, and I don't see the important principle on the other side, unless it's something about states' rights.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It depends.*

The example I'd give you is Antonio Delgado in NY 19, the district I grew up in.

I mean, the guy is Jewish. Hispanic. And Black. And he's a Harvard Law graduating Rhodes scholar. I will tell you I have heard plenty of anti-Semitic and racist slurs in that district. And plenty of anti-egghead sentiment as well. There are open bigots there who feel they can speak freely and expect their bigotry to be accepted by many of the people present. And, the district traditionally votes Republican.

But he won. Because he's a really good candidate, the kind of guy people want to talk with and are willing to listen to, and sufficiently down to earth so it formed a real contrast against the in-the-tank Republican he was running against.

He's going to have some tough sledding the next cycle or two, but I think he's capable of holding that seat long term.

To do this, Kamala has to not just be as good as the other candidates; she has to be significantly better. We'll see what she can do, but I'm not ruling her out.

* Maybe this should go without saying, since we're lawyers, and "it depends" is the universal mantra of our profession.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

To some extent, I'd say the right answer to this question is "of course". If you look at the history of the early Republic, there were elections by state legislature, there were elections with very limited electorates, there were all sorts of ways in which individual states used their electors and their electoral position as bargaining chips. That's how you ended up with situations where there were four major candidates in some races, or where favorite sons tried to walk in with a group of controlled votes to the electoral college negotiations (generally not successfully), or where the top two candidates were from the same party. In the 1860 election, Lincoln won despite not even being on the ballot in 9 of the 32 states that had popular elections (South Carolina did not).

There may be an argument that the 14th and/or 15th amendment changes things, but I think the idea of states setting up rules that limit Presidential election choices is inherent in the concept of an electoral college with electors chosen under state law election procedures.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It's a lot more than just here. The disarray is global. We're having a trade war with China. That's significant, but it's largely economic. The real cultural unwinding of globalism is taking place in Western and Eastern Europe.

I'm not sure that Trump is such a phenomenon. Brexit seems much larger in impact, as its spawned similar reactions in Italy and France. And if you read the press carefully, Germany. Poland is already right wing.

The populist genie doesn't go back in the bottle because of the actions of any old white guy over here. It screws with supply chains and markets all over the place.

Capehart is correct to note someone needs to put things back in order before progress can be made. But putting things back in order isn't just reweaving the tears in our social fabric caused by Donald Trump. Putting things back in order is engaging the conversation Andrew Yang is the only candidate raising:

"How do we deliver for the many - to at least some extent that allows them to live dignified lives - in what's increasingly an extreme winner take all global economy?"

Raj Chetty, perhaps the brightest economist assessing inequality today, has stated that the typical Democrat answer - more robust safety nets - is palliative, but does not cure the resentments of the masses that fuel populism. Which in turn fuels racism and xenophobia.

To try to fix the ugliness Trump has brought by addressing that surface ugliness, without seriously raising things like UBI and a New New Deal tackling infrastructure, is fiddling at the margins.

In this regard, while an old white guy may be the answer in the immediate, he also might prove to be too little, too late... and too focused on what Trump wrought, rather that the underlying forces that caused Trump.

ETA: Scarmucci nailed this in an interview last week. He said the power balance between labor and capital in Britain moved from 50/50 to 56/44 in favor of capital over the past couple decades. Brexit followed like clockwork. The US capital/labor power dynamic is 60/40 and has been for some time. Populism is not tempered by redistribution. It's tempered by restructuring the economy so labor has greater leverage. (Even UBI, which I like, is really just morphine for the patient.)

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It's almost like an international cabal of billionaire oligarchs have waged a multi-decade push to have government serve them and only them...

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Fair enough.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Dude, I like Kamala. I'd rather have her than Biden. I'm not even arguing that she can't win.

But if you think she's Obama-level charismatic (and remember, he was all things to all people while basically admitting every time he was asked a question that he was center-left), you are delusional.

This election needs to be huge. If Kamala (or whoever) wins a squeaker, it won't matter how great her progressive ideas are. We need to win by huge margins just to undo the fuckery that Trump and McConnell have implemented. We need the Senate and the House and the Presidency. And we need as many votes in Congress as possible. If we win the Presidency and don't win the Senate, I suppose that's something. But it is not enough.

Biden isn't the most progressive person running, sure. But what difference does it make how progressive you are if you can't get anything even up for a fucking vote? Do you think Biden sits in office vetoing progressive legislation that a Dem House and Senate put on his desk? Do you think President Harris is ever presented with progressive legislation to sign if we don't have the Senate?

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I disagree with your characterization of what fuels racism and xenophobia, but that's not a discussion I want to have with you (again).

On the other stuff, while I tend to agree that there is a shift to this super-billionaire, winner-take-all, approach, whenever a Democrat tries to suggest making a major shift (let's be the country to own clean energy, let's train coal country to take these jobs and create opportunities in those places through government-backed investment), they are either ignored or shouted down like Hillary was in West Virginia. On the socialism to capitalism spectrum, we have gone way too far towards pure capitalism. And any effort--even fucking reasonable ones--to try to rebalance where we sit is fought tooth and nail by Republicans who have enabled the rich to become even more powerful than they have always been (corporations are people, unlimited campaign contributions, huge and irresponsible tax cuts, etc.).

So, yes. Big change is needed. But it's needed now because the common sense approach to change that could have come over time given a Congress, Judiciary, and Presidency that actually reflects the political leanings of this country was completely stifled by Republicans and the dozen or so people who fucking own them.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I didn't say economic factors exclusively fuel racism. But they do act like gasoline on a fire. It’s historically and anthropologically established that when times get tough, people - typically and to the greatest extent, the common - look for scapegoats.

I’m not defending Rs when I note that D policies of redistribution are palliative. My point is neither party is really interested in rebalancing the power between labor and capital. Hillary had no interest in doing that, regardless of what she said. A Green New Deal in WV or Rust Belt is not a serious effort at such rebalancing. A tax on financial speculation, OTOH, with funds going exclusively to subsidizing public universities (but only for competitive majors) would do that. But that could never happen because Clintonite capitalism favors capital. As did Obama’s moderate capitalism.

Both the Rs and Ds are largely corporatist. There is no party offering a dignified existence to those wiped out by globalization and automation. The losers get fucked by both parties. Worse by the GOP, of course. But “You’re on your own, here’s some cheap health care and safety nets” vs. “You’re on your own, period” isn’t an enticing choice for the losers. So they vote for a hand grenade candidate like Trump. (This includes the $75k middle management Trump voter who senses he or she is soon to be wiped out by economic changes.)

You think the system needs to return to normalcy. An increasingly large number of people feel that if they can’t lead productive, dignified lives, the only recourse is to blow up the system. This thinking drives both the hard left and hard right. I think a lot of people misapprehend the hard left’s hatred for Trump. They don’t hate that he’s blowing up institutions. They like that. They hate what he’s replacing them with.

Our views here, tempered, corporate, are those of a small minority in the top 5-10%. The “change” desired by most on the right and left is very different than incremental sort with which people in the top 10% are or should be comfortable.

ETA: BTW, the GOP’s line that “Employers can’t find workers, the labor market is so tight” is total BS. Employers I deal with can’t find employees who’ll work in mid to lower tier positions for the shit wages being offered. Capital and management still perceive it to be a buyer’s labor market. I know the recent jobs reports show wage increases. But we all know it’s a few outlier areas, specialized, skewing that data (sometimes changing from month to month based on seasonal factors or, the last two years, trade wars and immigration issues).

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Again, I'm not sure that the ideas that could have gotten somewhere wouldn't have gained traction if Republicans did not exert such outsized power relative to their numbers in this country. I'm not really debating you. But if the Republican Party were a reasonable political party interested in actually improving this country, things would be a whole lot different.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Agreed. The modern GOP isn’t interested in governing. It’s interested in winning. Hence, Trump’s favorite word fits its voters perfectly.

ETA: We’re like a domestic Iraq, or Afghanistan. The GOP wins the election, you get a tax cut, and things fall apart. It doesn’t do rebuilding or managing very well, and doesn’t want to.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I’m answering twice, I know...

The Ds this time around need to kill this GOP argument that capitalism as it is currently practiced is meritocratic or accruing from “natural” or “market” forces.

It is not.

The McCapitalism of today is a result of policy choices and interventions. Our govt has decided to bail out certain people, subsidize others, and screw many. This is not a system where “animal instincts” prevail. It’s managed to perpetuate a status quo. It’s designed to protect those at the top, those with capital.

The GOP cannot be allowed to sustain this Horatio Alger story about the sanctity of “competitive” capitalism. They’re purveyors of a rigged system. Somebody’s got to say that as nakedly as it needs to be said.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

If you are going to be bound by an originalist conception, OK, but our side won the Civil War, and we now say the United States is x, not are x.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

This. We're electing a President, not a legislator in chief. If you are concerned about passing progressive legislation in the next four years, pass a President who can get shit done, and elect a more progressive Congress. The marginal Senator is going to determine what kind of laws get passed. The President will be doing all sorts of other things. Too many Democrats close their eyes to politics and think they are electing a professor of public policy to outwonk conservatives.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

If you care about these issues, and I think you do, you owe it to yourself to dwell on the differences between the parties instead of the similarities. There are real differences between what Republicans and Democrats want to do. Talking like they are the same, like you do, is a ticket to cheap cynicism instead of the possibility of making things better.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It’s all pink on the inside.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It is interested in maximizing the wealth of its donor class.