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-   -   Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875)

Not Bob 09-06-2015 10:28 AM
No thank you, please, it only makes me sneeze.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 497525)
with this and then the hasidim demanding chair swaps I can't imagine how all you hoi polloi continue to exist in coach.

another reason I moved up from "commercial" private to owning my own jet. my attendants have to mix me a Manhattan in their job interviews.
Bastard - that's actually a great idea. This sort of thing is why it's really all about the .01% versus the 1%.

Icky Thump 09-06-2015 03:55 PM
Re: They're going north, the rush is on.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497519)
Just reading Donald Trump's interview with Hewitt, that he said was full of "gotcha" questions. Here's the one he had the most trouble with:

HH: But on the front of Islamist terrorism, I’m looking for the next commander-in-chief, to know who Hassan Nasrallah is, and Zawahiri, and al-Julani, and al-Baghdadi. Do you know the players without a scorecard, yet, Donald Trump?
DT: No, you know, I’ll tell you honestly, I think by the time we get to office, they’ll all be changed.


Now, forget the Donald's self-professed ignorance - this reads to me like he just volunteered that he expects the whole cast of major terrorist leaders to be taken out before Obama's term is over. Isn't that the real story: Trump thinks Obama can decapitate terrorism worldwide in the coming months?
You don't need to know the healthy scratches until you are sitting in those blue seats.

But to be fair, my college education was filled with gotcha questions like "Solve for x"

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-07-2015 11:25 AM
Re: They're going north, the rush is on.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 497529)
You don't need to know the healthy scratches until you are sitting in those blue seats.

But to be fair, my college education was filled with gotcha questions like "Solve for x"
When my clients ask me stuff, I'm just saying, "that's a gotcha question" and sending them a bill.

taxwonk 09-07-2015 12:28 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 497523)
I take a job, voluntarily. I know that the job requires me to serve alcoholic beverages. I do the job, including occasionally serving alcoholic beverages. If Iam unwilling to do the job, I quit. What's more, her religion may prohibit her consumption of alcohol, it doesn't require her to deny it to others. Tell her to get in line behind Kim Davis, and I'll call her a waaambulance.

Sidd Finch 09-07-2015 08:00 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 497531)
I take a job, voluntarily. I know that the job requires me to serve alcoholic beverages. I do the job, including occasionally serving alcoholic beverages. If Iam unwilling to do the job, I quit. What's more, her religion may prohibit her consumption of alcohol, it doesn't require her to deny it to others. Tell her to get in line behind Kim Davis, and I'll call her a waaambulance.
2.


Much as Less might disagree, religion is not a mental disability that requires a reasonable accommodation under the ADA.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-08-2015 10:42 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497536)
2.


Much as Less might disagree, religion is not a mental disability that requires a reasonable accommodation under the ADA.
There are times one should accommodate the religion of someone in their employment. I'll let the labor law types figure out the extent to which this ought to mean legal protection and how much this just means not being a dick to people who work for you (there are more deserving people to be a dick to). For example, firing someone for observing Easter or Yom Kippur is a dick move.

But not serving alcohol as a flight attendant, not serving people who want to get married as a town clerk, or refusing cake or pizza on someone's wedding day? These are people who are just being dicks themselves.

Sidd Finch 09-08-2015 10:52 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497537)
There are times one should accommodate the religion of someone in their employment. I'll let the labor law types figure out the extent to which this ought to mean legal protection and how much this just means not being a dick to people who work for you (there are more deserving people to be a dick to). For example, firing someone for observing Easter or Yom Kippur is a dick move.

A dick move? Sure. But should it be illegal? I'd say no, and it's a whole lot easier to accommodate than is refusing to serve alcohol or issue licenses.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-08-2015 11:15 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497538)
A dick move? Sure. But should it be illegal? I'd say no, and it's a whole lot easier to accommodate than is refusing to serve alcohol or issue licenses.
A lot of stuff in the employment area becomes illegal because too many people behave like dicks if we don't. I don't see a principled distinction here, just a practical one, weighing the burdens of regulation on all the decent people against the need to deflate the dicks.

ThurgreedMarshall 09-08-2015 12:11 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 497445)
You might like this.
That's pretty good.

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 09-08-2015 12:21 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 497523)
Ridiculous. You know the job. Don't do it if your religion says you can't perform aspects of it.

I'm sick of all this religious accommodation bullshit.

TM

Sidd Finch 09-08-2015 06:25 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497541)
A lot of stuff in the employment area becomes illegal because too many people behave like dicks if we don't. I don't see a principled distinction here, just a practical one, weighing the burdens of regulation on all the decent people against the need to deflate the dicks.
No. We never get to a weighing analysis unless we first decide that religion -- religious practices, preferences, prohibitions, or some or all of same -- are legally deserving of a reasonable accommodation. Only then do you weigh the burden or making an accommodation.

And while giving someone the day off for Yom Kippur may seem reasonable in all circumstances, I don't agree that it is. First, if someone demanded Christmas off when we had a trial on December 27, I would say no, and I would mean it. Second, you pretty quickly get to a need to give several holidays, or all Friday afternoons off for prayer, or Sundays for church....

But, most of all, fuck that. People with real jobs lose them because they don't want to work on Thanksgiving or New Year's Day. I don't see a need to elevate religious observance days to a special status here.

Sidd Finch 09-08-2015 06:26 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 497547)
Ridiculous. You know the job. Don't do it if your religion says you can't perform aspects of it.

I'm sick of all this religious accommodation bullshit.

TM
This would have been a more succinct way to say what I said above.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-08-2015 06:43 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497616)
No. We never get to a weighing analysis unless we first decide that religion -- religious practices, preferences, prohibitions, or some or all of same -- are legally deserving of a reasonable accommodation. Only then do you weigh the burden or making an accommodation.

And while giving someone the day off for Yom Kippur may seem reasonable in all circumstances, I don't agree that it is. First, if someone demanded Christmas off when we had a trial on December 27, I would say no, and I would mean it. Second, you pretty quickly get to a need to give several holidays, or all Friday afternoons off for prayer, or Sundays for church....

But, most of all, fuck that. People with real jobs lose them because they don't want to work on Thanksgiving or New Year's Day. I don't see a need to elevate religious observance days to a special status here.
Wait, Thanksgiving and New Year's Day are religious holidays? Is this more football stuff?

Sidd Finch 09-08-2015 06:54 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497619)
Wait, Thanksgiving and New Year's Day are religious holidays? Is this more football stuff?
I can't tell if you are joking or being serious.

If serious, I'll say two things:

1. Try to reserve your dickish outbursts for discussions with TM.

2. My point, which I thought was pretty obvious, was that if Walmart can fire someone for refusing to work on Thanksgiving, why should they be legally barred from firing someone for refusing to work on Yom Kippur, Easter, or any other day that some religious regards as a holiday?

If joking, I'll say this:

That was funny.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-08-2015 07:30 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497620)
I can't tell if you are joking or being serious.

If serious, I'll say two things:

1. Try to reserve your dickish outbursts for discussions with TM.

2. My point, which I thought was pretty obvious, was that if Walmart can fire someone for refusing to work on Thanksgiving, why should they be legally barred from firing someone for refusing to work on Yom Kippur, Easter, or any other day that some religious regards as a holiday?

If joking, I'll say this:

That was funny.
I was joking. Football didn't give it away?

I generally wouldn't start criminalizing making people work on religious holidays as a matter of course. As I said earlier, I thought I'd leave to others the question of whether behavior was dickish or illegal, but, hey, we are already into it, so why not.

If law firm of Brahman & Forbes, run by good old-school New England Calvinists, had a policy of giving people X days of PTO and as a matter of course denied people the ability to use those days on Yom Kippur but let people use them on Good Friday, Brahman & Forbes would not want me on the jury. And if there were a whole lot of Brahman & Forbes' in a given city who did this regularly, and I were king, I'd think about legislation that would make it illegal.

Yes, businesses may need people to work holidays. I work many holidays. Dammit, this year I worked on both Easter and Eid. If Walmart is open, they're going to need workers. But it's an area where it's perfectly reasonable for people to ask for a little accommodation and for businesses to try to be flexible in response, not like the airplane or town clerk where management is entitled to just be pissed.

Luckily, we live in a country where people would never discriminate against religious minorities. (Religious majorities, of course, may be another matter.)

Hank Chinaski 09-08-2015 07:39 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497621)
I was joking. Football didn't give it away?

I generally wouldn't start criminalizing making people work on religious holidays as a matter of course. As I said earlier, I thought I'd leave to others the question of whether behavior was dickish or illegal, but, hey, we are already into it, so why not.

If law firm of Brahman & Forbes, run by good old-school New England Calvinists, had a policy of giving people X days of PTO and as a matter of course denied people the ability to use those days on Yom Kippur but let people use them on Good Friday, Brahman & Forbes would not want me on the jury. And if there were a whole lot of Brahman & Forbes' in a given city who did this regularly, and I were king, I'd think about legislation that would make it illegal.

Yes, businesses may need people to work holidays. I work many holidays. Dammit, this year I worked on both Easter and Eid. If Walmart is open, they're going to need workers. But it's an area where it's perfectly reasonable for people to ask for a little accommodation and for businesses to try to be flexible in response, not like the airplane or town clerk where management is entitled to just be pissed.

Luckily, we live in a country where people would never discriminate against religious minorities. (Religious majorities, of course, may be another matter.)
my first firm was the old time "Jewish" patent boutique. My first yom kippur the goyim CEO took all of us who came to work out to lunch on the firm, he goes "of course this is fair, these Jewish guys ain't working Christmas."

Which does seem a valid point, sort of?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-08-2015 07:59 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 497623)
my first firm was the old time "Jewish" patent boutique. My first yom kippur the goyim CEO took all of us who came to work out to lunch on the firm, he goes "of course this is fair, these Jewish guys ain't working Christmas."

Which does seem a valid point, sort of?
I'm looking to celebrate all religious holidays myself.

Sidd Finch 09-08-2015 08:13 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497621)
If law firm of Brahman & Forbes, run by good old-school New England Calvinists, had a policy of giving people X days of PTO and as a matter of course denied people the ability to use those days on Yom Kippur but let people use them on Good Friday, Brahman & Forbes would not want me on the jury. And if there were a whole lot of Brahman & Forbes' in a given city who did this regularly, and I were king, I'd think about legislation that would make it illegal.

I doubt you would need such legislation. That seems like straight-up discrimination based on religion, and already actionable. Which is why the firm would have to worry about you being on the jury -- they don't generally convene juries when stuff isn't actionable.

It is not illegal for me to assign really shitty tasks to junior lawyers (thank god). But if I routinely assign the shitty tasks to black lawyers, while giving white lawyers only the really cool and interesting tasks that junior lawyers do (whatever those are).... well, you get the point.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-08-2015 10:23 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497626)
It is not illegal for me to assign really shitty tasks to junior lawyers (thank god). But if I routinely assign the shitty tasks to black lawyers, while giving white lawyers only the really cool and interesting tasks that junior lawyers do (whatever those are).... well, you get the point.
Of course, for most large firms, the "Brady Rule" applies here. It's not whether or not they discriminate that's at issue, it's whether you can catch them.

Adder 09-09-2015 10:41 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497616)
First, if someone demanded Christmas off when we had a trial on December 27, I would say no, and I would mean it.
Very few jobs face this kind of urgency, and the ones that do are generally exempt from most forms of labor regulation, aren't they?

Quote:
Second, you pretty quickly get to a need to give several holidays, or all Friday afternoons off for prayer, or Sundays for church....
Ah, the slippery slope. Except you almost certainly already do accommodate for these things without even thinking about it. Most of what we do that's not happening on government time can be pretty easily moved around.

Quote:
People with real jobs lose them because they don't want to work on Thanksgiving or New Year's Day.
If they work for assholes, I guess. Thankfully, everywhere I've ever worked had people that also did not want to work on Thanksgiving or New Year's Day and only did so if truly necessary and did not expect anything else of others.

ETA: I initially read "real jobs" to mean "jobs like ours," but perhaps that's not what you meant. If you meant actual real jobs - i.e., not white collar professional ones - then yeah, people with real jobs get fired for refusing to work when assigned.

Sidd Finch 09-09-2015 11:27 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 497636)
ETA: I initially read "real jobs" to mean "jobs like ours," but perhaps that's not what you meant. If you meant actual real jobs - i.e., not white collar professional ones - then yeah, people with real jobs get fired for refusing to work when assigned.
Bingo. I meant the exact opposite of jobs like ours. I meant the people who most need workplace protection.

There are a hell of a lot of battles that I'd rather see fought, and won, for people in those kinds of jobs before mandating a level of time off for religious observances.

ThurgreedMarshall 09-09-2015 12:07 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497620)
1. Try to reserve your dickish outbursts for discussions with TM.
Hey!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFpc6PRW8AEtROY.jpg

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 09-09-2015 12:13 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 497626)
...I routinely assign the shitty tasks to black lawyers, while giving white lawyers only the really cool and interesting tasks that junior lawyers do
Hey!

http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/...eally-Need.jpg

TM

Sidd Finch 09-10-2015 01:37 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 497653)
That sort of editing really undermines your credibility. And that, my friend, is why I would only give you the shitty tasks.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-10-2015 12:13 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Hillary Clinton isn't exciting anyone, and has a calculated centrist appeal that would serve here better in the general election but doesn't seem to be helping her with the party faithful. Donald Trump has a remarkable appeal to the GOP base, but it's hard to imagine him winning the middle in a general election. If the country were ever to elect as president a Socialist from Vermont, wouldn't it have to be in circumstances where he were running against a candidate like Clinton in the primary and a candidate like Trump in the general?

Adder 09-10-2015 01:05 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 497694)
Hillary Clinton isn't exciting anyone, and has a calculated centrist appeal that would serve here better in the general election but doesn't seem to be helping her with the party faithful. Donald Trump has a remarkable appeal to the GOP base, but it's hard to imagine him winning the middle in a general election. If the country were ever to elect as president a Socialist from Vermont, wouldn't it have to be in circumstances where he were running against a candidate like Clinton in the primary and a candidate like Trump in the general?
Seems more likely that the socialist from Vermont running as a third candidate would cause a GOP nominee like Trump to actually get elected.

ThurgreedMarshall 09-10-2015 01:26 PM
???
 
“I’d love to have Mike involved in some capacity. Why? Because Mike knows how to win and our politicians don’t,” Trump said about Hall of Fame coach Mike Ditka “Nobody messed with Mike.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...e-ditka-213453

Uh...I...um...

TM

taxwonk 09-10-2015 01:30 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 497695)
Seems more likely that the socialist from Vermont running as a third candidate would cause a GOP nominee like Trump to actually get elected.
If that were to happen, perhaps the Democrats would finally learn a lesson and find someone who can (a) win and (b) will actually try to accomplish something dramatic if elected. And that socialist from Vermont might actually attract enough talent and like-minded people willing to run for office to make that third party viable. Probably not, but quite frankly I'm willing to vote for anything that disrupts the status quo.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-10-2015 01:39 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 497695)
Seems more likely that the socialist from Vermont running as a third candidate would cause a GOP nominee like Trump to actually get elected.
I think there is zero chance that Sanders will run as an independent in the general -- did I miss something?

Tyrone Slothrop 09-10-2015 01:42 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 497697)
If that were to happen, perhaps the Democrats would finally learn a lesson and find someone who can (a) win and (b) will actually try to accomplish something dramatic if elected. And that socialist from Vermont might actually attract enough talent and like-minded people willing to run for office to make that third party viable. Probably not, but quite frankly I'm willing to vote for anything that disrupts the status quo.
If Democrats want to accomplish something dramatic (by which I gather you mean something even more dramatic than health-care reform), they need to change the composition of Congress. If you cloned Elizabeth Warren and infused her with the DNA of Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Albert Einstein and Lionel Messi, she would still be unable to get bills passed without 218 Representatives and 50 or 60 Senators.

ThurgreedMarshall 09-10-2015 01:43 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 497697)
If that were to happen, perhaps the Democrats would finally learn a lesson and find someone who can (a) win and (b) will actually try to accomplish something dramatic if elected. And that socialist from Vermont might actually attract enough talent and like-minded people willing to run for office to make that third party viable. Probably not, but quite frankly I'm willing to vote for anything that disrupts the status quo.
I'm not sure what this means. Is it even possible to disrupt the status quo without a supermajority of votes on every single possible piece of legislation?

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 09-10-2015 01:43 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 497699)
If Democrats want to accomplish something dramatic (by which I gather you mean something even more dramatic than health-care reform), they need to change the composition of Congress. If you cloned Elizabeth Warren and infused her with the DNA of Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Albert Einstein and Lionel Messi, she would still be unable to get bills passed without 218 Representatives and 50 or 60 Senators.
Exactly.

TM

Adder 09-10-2015 03:10 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 497697)
If that were to happen, perhaps the Democrats would finally learn a lesson and find someone who can (a) win and (b) will actually try to accomplish something dramatic if elected.
You mean like a significant expansion of publicly subsidized health care? An overhaul of the regulatory regime for private health insurance? "Ending" two wars? Passing a significant (if still too small) stimulus package in the face of the worst economic conditions since the 1930s? ETA: Or significantly expanding green energy?

Quote:
And that socialist from Vermont might actually attract enough talent and like-minded people willing to run for office to make that third party viable. Probably not, but quite frankly I'm willing to vote for anything that disrupts the status quo.
I hear you, but I don't think we're going to get a viable third party on the left. On the right, maybe.

Adder 09-10-2015 03:12 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 497698)
I think there is zero chance that Sanders will run as an independent in the general -- did I miss something?
You missed that I cannot read.

Yeah, I don't think either Sanders or Trump can really get their party's nomination (to sort of respond to what you actually said).*

*insert appropriate oral sex-based insult here.

ThurgreedMarshall 09-10-2015 04:53 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 497703)
I cannot read.
https://thechive.files.wordpress.com...rip=info&w=600

TM

Adder 09-10-2015 05:08 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 497715)
I am also face blind.

Or am now.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-16-2015 01:02 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
We need to see more moderate whites speaking out against these lunatics in Irving.

Adder 09-16-2015 02:38 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497794)
We need to see more moderate whites speaking out against these lunatics in Irving.
It seems the POTUS is on it.

Sidd Finch 09-16-2015 05:42 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 497794)
We need to see more moderate whites speaking out against these lunatics in Irving.
Um.... huh?

But, hey, if you want to revive the whole "black cars" discussion, be my guest.

ThurgreedMarshall 09-16-2015 05:50 PM
Brady hearts Trump?
 
I can honestly now say I no longer like him.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/politi...ent/index.html

TM


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