Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

He referred to too many people directly. I did not know Sandy, Terry, or Mary. Nor, more notably, Wendy. This made it hard for me to relate to her town ripping the bones from Wendy's back. And while I understand the concept of deathtraps, and even suicide raps (I think, maybe), if one was born to engage in a fairly simple activity, assuming they've reached driving age, why haven't they done it?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Only if you're viewing the thing myopically.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

True. Greenwald and Taibbi have long been Right Wing shills. And Greenwald was dead wrong about the quality of Snowden's disclosures. As was Taibbi on the 2008 meltdown in Griftopia.

Face it. You've picked a side, and whatever info you get that doesn't support your views you are going to criticize. That's fine. It's also fine for me to remind you of that fact.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

A lot of my high school listening was split between Zeppelin/Stones on the one hand, and the most out-there free jazz I could find (like the Ornette Coleman album where he "plays" the violin, "Empty Foxhole" I think, or the most flipped out of the Sun Ra). Punk did not hit me until the very end of H.S. and more in college, introduced through ska-punk bands like Fishbone and Mighty, Mighty Bosstones (who were much more of a hardcore band live in the very early days). The only hip hop I knew in high school was Rappers Delight and Run-D.M.C., which I loved. Sheltered child.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

They'll do as Carrier did -- aggressively seek to automate domestic plants. This gets rid of workers in smaller batches, over longer periods of time. No big layoffs to be noticed and tweeted about by King Trump.

Everybody planning big layoffs just shifted strategy to less apparent, smaller labor cuts over the long term.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

He has been a serious dick. You shouldn't take that sitting down.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Trumpian rubbish.

First of all, the idea that there are two sides is absurd. Putting Wonk and Hank and I on the same side because we all voted for Hillary is absurd, unless the sides you are talking about are "civilization" or "not". Wonks a Bernie-supporting anti-globalist, Hank's vote was reluctant and semi-hostile, and I'm your basic internationalist traditionalist Dem, we all have very different views of the world.

You are trying to justify an article that doesn't cite to the main source for detailed information on the hacks and their connection to Russia. Yes, sure, I'm on board with the idea that the FBI/DHS report didn't give many useful technical specifics, but someone else did. If you're writing an article on it, read the key fucking source.

Yes, despite that, if I had to rely on the credibility of sources and only have nonspecific information from, on the one hand, the 17 US intelligence services and, on the other, intercept, wikileaks, and trump tweats, I will indeed be prone to pick the intelligence agencies. In this case, though, I don't have to get there, because there is a detailed report out there dealing with the Russian connection. So there is no need to weigh untrustworthy sources.

Another truly dumb post from you. Based on the Flower anti-hyperbole principles now being applied here, I'll take no position on its comparative stupidity.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

Ok then. A late bloomer.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

I still like Zeppelin, but as far as lyrics, when they're singing about Middle Earth, Springsteen's deathtrap seems a much preferable location. Running nowhere with Wendy (good cardio) beats sitting with elders of the gentle race, and watching Mary dance alone might expose me to charges as a peeping Tom, but it beats the darkest depths of Mordor any day.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Taibbi stated flatly that, from the sources he's seen, he sees little there there.

That you just cited Taibbi and Greenwald as Trumpian rubbish is rich.

For further reading: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...-hacking-story

By the way, this is all putting aside the fact that all the hacks did was expose that the DNC was fucking Sanders! On your best day, your best argument is that Russia unfairly told Bernie's kids the truth! You see how for shit this line of attack is for you? Why it sounds like serious sour grapes? Distilled to its core, you are arguing:

"The DNC, at the behest of Hillary's people, engaged in really shitty behavior and did everything they could to screw over a fellow D candidate who had a legitimate chance at the nomination. The Russians hacked DNC emails and exposed this to the public, which hurt Hillary. Don't pay attention to the latter thing. Focus on the former, which is an abomination!"

You get why this message isn't working? You can't say "Sure, my organization was shitty, but no one should have known," and expect sympathy. The more you ask people to excuse the DNC's shittiness and focus on Russia, particularly in a whiny tone, the more they do the reverse. Why? Because it's logical. You can't demand, in a preachy fashion, that someone accept your narrative when you're defending people engaged in shitty behavior.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I didn't say there were two sides. I said you picked a side. I see four sides:

1. Hillary
2. Trump
3. Bernie
4. None of the above

You're in camp 1. And you hate camp 2. Any source arguing 2 sucks and 1 was robbed will be supported by you. Any source arguing 1 sucked, 2 is great, or 2 is okay, will be ripped by you. Any source arguing 3 was screwed by 1 will be recognized, but fought by you on the grounds that 3 was unelectable and unrealistic. Anyone like me, who falls into 4, but enjoys challenging your narratives, will be ripped as a 2 supporter, or 2 enabler.

2 will be in charge. We'll both deal with it. Maybe it'll be great, or a mess, or a fucking disaster. But until I know, I can't whine. But trust me -- if I don't like what I get out of 2, I'll be right there whining with you. But now, this early, that'd be premature. I'll save my bleating until it's warranted.

Those romantic young boys.
 

Sebby, only a man without a soul doesn't know a Wendy, a Mary, or a Sandy. And if falling in love with a Rosalita or a (Puerto Rican) Jane is wrong, then I don't wanna be right.

Ty: I received the Springsteen memoir as a generic winter gift-giving holiday present, and am getting ready to start it.

GGG: I think I've told this story before, but Led Zeppelin was so popular at my school that I had to pretend to like them to avoid complete ostracization and the occasional ass-kicking. Listening to Robert Plant's nasally whine still gives me hives.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Do you think there's anything the DNC did that made a difference (as between Sanders and HRC)? I don't. I think the DNC was full of establishment types who were solidly in HRC's camp, but couldn't do more than the next establishment type to help her. What do you think they actually accomplished?

Re: Tommy Said So
 

I'm currently reading "Trouble Boys," the Mats bio, which was thoughtfully gifted to me for holiday time. Damn, Bob Stinson had one fucked up life.

Oh, and Tommy has brought back Bash and Pop. Go see 'em if you get a chance. Tommy Stinson is rock and roll.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

You keep ignoring the main source for info.

As to the leaks, as opposed to the hacks, most of it is pretty meh, and we certainly talked about it during the campaign.

As of the facts of the hacks, what we know is way more than what was leaked. We know they included both Dem and republican organizations (thought we don't know what Republican ones outside of the Illinois party). We know they included the white house and state and other governmental agencies. We know that what was leaked appears to be selectively focused on helping Trump/hurting Hillary. And we know these things not just because the intelligence community has told us, but also because there is a detailed private report out there that you're scrupulously avoiding.

So you want to do nothing to further investigate this?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

So which of your little camps do most Republicans fall in these days?

In case you haven't noticed, Hillary isn't running for anything these days, and Bernie's not likely to be either, once he gets whatever committee seats he's jockeying for. Expect Obama to be a force in the party long after both those suns have set.

I've always seen eye to eye with a lot of Republicans on things like TPP, which Hill went soft on. And I've always been with the progressive wing of the party on things like minimum wage and civil rights (note: not a Bernie issue). And the foreign policy world rarely fits these neat little categories. But I will say this, I don't care if shallow is the Intercept or Breitbart or you, shallow is shallow.

Re: Those romantic young boys.
 

We have all faked the occasional air guitar riff from Stairway to Heaven. It's not the sort of thing we need to be proud of, and we certainly need to keep it from the children.

Hearing that Sebby has never known a Wendy or at least longed for a Rosalita, I understand so much more. Poor Sebby. He was the kid who buttoned the top button on his shirt and listened to Steely Dan and played Ms. Pac Man in the lunchroom while we were all dancing in the gym, wasn't he?

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

Oh man.

TM

Re: Those romantic young boys.
 

"We went into the living room, someone was blasting Zepplin
It sounded good, I felt ashamed, I knew every drum fill."

Jawbreaker, "Bad Scene, Everybody's Fault."

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

I guess I knew The Message and a few other songs. But in fairness, I graduated high school BEFORE there were any albums by Public Enemy, Ice-T, KRS-One, Beastie Boys, NWA, Cypress Hill, De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, Jungle Brothers, etc., etc. And suburban Boston kids were not all that plugged into what was happening on NYC radio. In the years between when I graduated HS and when you did, things changed a lot in the rap world.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

This is true, and as soon as you started talking about the goofy Hobbit-lite lyrics, I immediately began thinking of that darkest depths of Mordor line. How could that have ever seemed like a cool thing to sing about? But it's not all like that (Misty Mountain Hop, for example). Why don't you take a good look at yourself and describe what you see.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

Boston had less of a rap scene than Poughkeepsie in those days. I understand.

On the other hand, Boston did have a punk scene. Even if you weren't ready to descend into the Rat. I still have a blood- spattered t-shirt from the Ramones at the Paradise in 1978.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

I threw away the shirt I was wearing when I saw the Mighty, Mighty Bosstones at The Rat immediately after the concert in a garbage can on the street. Early in the show, someone was hanging from the pipes on the ceiling and broke one, which sprayed water down into the slam pit. Because the Rat had almost no stage, we were stage diving off the band's monitors, but because of all the water, almost every time we launched ourselves into the crowd, everybody slipped and we all fell into this disgusting swamp of water, beer, cigarette butts, and whatever other horrifying fucking filth lived on the floor of The Rat. Fortunately, the bus driver let me ride shirtless on the bus back to my friend's house. I started law school the next day. But yes, your point is a fair one -- I slept on the Boston punk scene in high school with no explanation other than sheltered child.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

my best punk cred building act- at DC's 9:30 club, Watching Holly and the Italians, my contact (hard plastic) popped out of my eye onto the filth layered floor. I stooped down and reached around pounding feet trying to find it. Then I found it! But it was now crusty. No time to go to the bathroom- I stuck it into my mouth and cleaned it with my own water supply and then into the eye, all within one chorus of "Tell That Girl To Shut Up."

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

That is true. It was definitely way different back then. I remember getting to college and the only rap music people had heard was Joy and Pain. Good grief.

I wasn't testing your bona fides. I was lamenting your lack of exposure.

TM

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

The rappiest I got was Young MC and his Stone Cold Rhymin'. I believe I win most sheltered.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

One of the people I went to high school with became a rapper, under the nom de plume of Middle Age Cracker Rapper. Whatever you do, don't look him up.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

Understood, I definitely lacked exposure and, in candor, I wasn't really seeking it out at the time. Just pointing out, as you do, that times were different. Today's Daily Dose is some more old school funk. It's The Mohawks with a nice little organ number called "Beat Me 'Til I'm Blue":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYhiErp8um8

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

WashPo, CNN and the Times brought you continuous breathless coverage of the emails non-issue, and CNN aired hours upon hours of Trump rallies without commentary. Heck, they actually cut from a Hillary speech to wait for Trump to take the podium.

(I have no opinion on the Globe, which I generally do not read)

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I don't know how there's any other way to see Greenwald if you've followed him through this cycle. Putin harbors his friend/source. Trump is kindly to Putin. Hillary is anti-Putin. So Greenwald tolerates Trump.

Jesus, you've just given up on reasoning, haven't you?

I think the only way the hacks hurt Hillary is that the public is too stupid to understand that it wasn't her private email server that was hacked, so they think harm came from it.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

No, it will be fought on the grounds that it's bullshit, that Bernie was given as good a chance as anyone else (which one could argue he didn't deserve as a non-Democrat) and that the "screwing" amounted to being given far more debate opportunities than is typical.

Otherwise, what you've got is that individual party staffers preferred the Democrat in the race and expected her to prevail. Shocking.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

If you were to compare the stupidity of the statement you are responding to above to the statements in the second paragraph of Post 3097, how would it rank? Equally stupid? Even more dumb? Has he possibly surpassed himself yet again?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Shallow is Clapper's testimony this morning. "We have stuff, but we can't give it to you until next week. We're still compiling it."

Let me get this straight. The intelligence community was sure Russia was behind most of the hacking before the election. Obama went and told this to the media, numerous times. But now, a month after the Administration started fingering Russia as the main culprit behind the hacking, and stated it had ironclad proof, the guy in charge of providing that proof still hasn't compiled it adequately enough to present to Congress. Not even a little taste, Gen. Clapper? (And let's not forget, this is the same Clapper who lied to Congress regarding the NSA's Prism program during hearings following the Snowden revelations.)

Look. I'm sure Russia was up to serious shenanigans here. But this is an argument of degree. How much hacking did they do, and what was the impact? We should investigate it fully and take action top prevent it in the future. But the Administration and the Democratic Party are trying to make this an argument of absolutes, and they look pretty stupid for the effort.

Screaming over and over, "Look at the hacking! Look at Russia's hacking!", isn't going to move any serious person's eye off the real issue: How much did the hacking impact the campaign? The answer to that will be, not enough to have changed the outcome. It probably caused a bunch of Bernie Bros. to feel a lot better about staying home or voting for Stein or Johnson. But not enough to have made a difference in enough of the "blue wall" states in which Trump beat Hillary. And again, all this hacking did was expose the truth about collusion between a bent DNC and the Clinton Machine. The most one can charge Putin with exposing is, well -- facts. Ugly facts.

She ran a shitty campaign without a message, and Bernie hobbled her badly before she even reached the Convention. The Democratic Establishment would do well to stop crying about Putin and admit its own failures here. Hillary was weak and without a message when a strong candidate with a change platform was needed. 2008 was her one and only chance. Unfortunately, it also happened to be Obama's year, and he had a message.

Re: The 70s was an ugly, ugly place
 

Yo Bum Rush the Show is old as dirt, which makes you...

No Slick Rick, Too Short, Schooly D? That's some ancient stuff right there.

And if you want to go way, way back, the Last Poets? That's some truly old school rap. Pre-dating Rapper's Delight. I recall my folks thinking I was on drugs (perhaps correctly) when I was listening to the Poets. "'Cause the white man's got a God complex!" Look them up on Youtube. They're a sort of MC5 of rap. Arguably created the genre, as the MC5 and Stooges did punk, but rarely credited for much.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

WaPo, at Bezo's request, staffed something like 20 people on the task of digging up any and every thing it could on Trump. It then embarked on an amazing campaign of opinion articles smearing the shit out of the guy every day. This even bled over to its news division, which became largely indistinguishable from its opinion pages.

WaPo made the Times look quite even-handed this election.

CNN did give Trump loads of airtime, but as Fox did regarding Hillary, every report on Trump was tinged with subtle negative commentary. And CNN's morning guy, Cuomo, beat Trump like a gong every chance he got.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

If you have to defend what was done to Bernie on the grounds that wasn't a real Democrat, wouldn't it be wiser to refrain from replying? Really. That's not a strong angle.

Bernie was a legitimate candidate running on a platform more traditionally Democratic (read: Pre-Clinton triangulation) than Hillary. Staffers didn't prefer a Democrat over an independent. They were in the bag for the Clintons, and they preferred the success of the Clinton machine to a truly fair nomination process.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I suppose if I did that, yeah.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

You did.

Bernie and Trump were quite similar. Both were unique candidates loathed by the establishment arms of their (adopted?) parties. The only difference I see is Trump beat the Establishment, and Bernie did not.

I understand the wisdom of the Establishment in both instances. I thought both were unelectable. But Trump clearly proved a lot of us wrong there, and given Bernie's populist message was similar in many ways to Trump's, the question of whether he would've beaten Trump can be argued yes or no with equal credibility.

Re: Sand, Ass, no dif
 

You are working very hard to stick your head in the sand. Why not just stick it in? Is there some way in which you're trying to convince yourself you're not stick it in while you do stick it in?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Read it again.