LawTalkers - Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03

Originally posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck
I agree with SD's criticism of your use of "class" distinctions in judging people, paigs. It's an outdated mode of classification and makes the person using it look like an ass. It's judgmental and, quite frankly, recockulous.

You claim old money people don't get their boobs done and do certain other things, but that is total bullshit. I mean, how the fuck do you explain the most recent installment of the Bachelor if that's true? And don't try to tell me it's because the Firestone's aren't "old money." In this young country, they're about as "old money" as you can get.

I'm not saying this proves "classy" people get boob jobs, I'm just saying the distinction between what "classy" people do and don't do is largely irrelevant in the 21st Century.

Now we are seguing into a convo on class. Makes you wish DS would stop beating the dead horse and finally say goodbye to gogowolf and come here where she belons.

First off, class and classy are probably unrelated terms. I dont know what classy means bc I have never used it but I suspect it means what taste looks like to people who dont have it. Class has a couple of meanings. It means ones position in society. As in "what class is your family from"? Kind of like the official class system in England or the Caste system of India. Or it can mean, you "have class". Which means you have taste, elegance, modesty and you disdain flashiness.

Now that the definitions are out of the way, lets talk semantics.
when I posted about classy people not hving fake tits, I was first off mocking those who use the word classy, which is just crassy, as well as mocking those who get fake tits. Because I usually mock more than one group of people with a sentence. Its more efficient for me taht way. If you have read me, you might have gotten this by now.

But I also meant to infer that people of class dont have fake tits in the sense of the second definition of class- meaning that fake tits are not modest, tasteful, elegant and unflashy accessories, but the opposite across the board. BUT, my schtick here is old money. And Burberry and Jamaica. I know that not everyone is either able to succintly define class, or at least understand my defnitions of it, So folks might jump to the old money definition (and I may have mentioned it in the first post before SEbby got into Greenwich- if I was being obvious about exploiting the duality of the term) . I was also testing Sebby's class by seeing whether he would say "classy" seriously or if he got the joke. I would think that people here who know the schtick but dont know me, which is probalby most of you, would think I was using the old money meaning exclusively. And while I agree that most old money people probably arent going around doing this to themselves, I also acknowledge that the current young gerneation is not at all like their forebears. I mean, we have Paris and Nicky Hilton and their bimbo mother. Pure trash. Yet old money. But completely without class in the second definition of the term.

I hope this clears things up (but suspect it might make no sense to anyone but me, which is too bad)

Tyrone Slothrop

04-01-2003 02:25 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Clearly I'm not a woman, but when I receive a comment from a woman passerby, it never pisses me off. Is it a male ego thing?

Most of what you say makes sense to me, TM, but women and men are not similarly situated in this regard. Comments from male passersby have a latent threatening aspect to them that comments from women to men don't have.

Aloha Mr. Learned Hand

04-01-2003 02:31 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Songs about movie stars

Quote:

Originally posted by spookyfish
Was Godzilla a female movie star? :p

Oh my god, I haven't thought of that sketch in ages. Hilarious.

Speaking of Christopher Walken, remember the SNL sketch where Kevin Spacey was host and he was doing various actors auditioning for the part of Obi Wan in Star Wars? His Christopher Walken impersonation was spot on.

spooky(isn't this OUR time, Mr. Hand?)fish

Ahem, the request was for preferably female movie stars. :smack: As for Godzilla, I haven't personally checked...

Aloha (actually, it's always MY time...) Mr. Learned Hand

paigowprincess

04-01-2003 02:33 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Paigow,

That puts Rube Goldberg to shame, the only difference being, his mousetrap works.

I make lewd comments on a chat board, so I'm a date rapist mentality? Come on, you're embarrassing yourself here and making Andrea Dworkin look like a moderate. I say many things in the anonymity of a chat board that I'd never say loudly in public. However, that people who dress porovacatively will get attention and should expect it is not one such comment.

My wife happens to be rather attractive, and she's told me many times that she fully expects to have crass idiots whistle at her when she wears something slinky. She doesn't like it, but she sure as hell isn't stupid enough not to recognize that its going to happen. And I didn't excuse it - I merely cited it as a reality that is NEVER going to change. You then twisted my words to fir them into that date rape argument, which you know has absolutely no application here. I'm a bit shocked - that's a very tired trick, and you know me damn better than to try to trap me with a second year associate technique. You're trying to level me with a politically correct argument because you know that those who see that argument used tend to let their vitriol overcome their logic and don't read the underlying substance of the dispute. Its cheap and its beneath you - and I resent your bring it.

I may spout off about how much I love asses and such, but there's a huge line between advocating violence and being a cad on a chat baord, and you know it.

S(This is one topic that riles me)D

Your reading comprehension reeks, Sebby. I said you have made lewd comments aobut women IN RESPONSE TO YOUR COMMENT THAT YOU HAD NEVER MADE LEWD COMMENTS ABOUT A WOMAN. Go check the prior posts.

I cant read the rest of this post bc it is exhausting my attention span and probably doesnt comprehend my words well given the start of the post. No offense.

But I did like the Crowes live double album. When is Chris Robinsion coming out with his solo thing that will likely suck?

JustForFun

04-01-2003 02:37 PM

Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
That said, dressing like a cheap whore is not sexy, but we're not talking about the trailer park here... we're talking about normal chicks who know how to show off their money makers.

Dressing like a cheap whore can be sexy in the right circumtances. Same circumstances as dressing like a catholic school girl or french maid. Wouldn't wear these outfits in public, but I wouldn't wear hand-cuffs in public, either.

paigowprincess

04-01-2003 02:39 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex_de_Large
Paigow:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/cyrus/images/kickintheass.gif

Looks like you, MR, and Sebby are about equally good at reading comprehension. Lemme guess. YOu went to Southern Illinois Law Skool too? Mental midgets. I squish your heads.

Mister_Ruysbroeck

04-01-2003 02:40 PM

Re: Re: classy...

Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
blah blah blah.... I was joking ... blah blah blah ..... incomprehensible "distertation" on the use of "class" and "classy".... more words ....

Sounds like a lot of post-hoc rationalization to me.

And, at any rate, your so-called "definitions" proved my point, which is that using "class" distinctions as a method of judgment is totally useless.

Mister_Ruysbroeck

04-01-2003 02:43 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Looks like you, MR, and Sebby are about equally good at reading comprehension. Lemme guess. YOu went to Southern Illinois Law Skool too? Mental midgets. I squish your heads.

idiot's guide to argumentation rule No. 20,321: when you've run out of logical, intelligent things to say, resort to name calling.

http://feedback.blackisle.com/images/macro/youlose.jpg

paigowprincess

04-01-2003 02:47 PM

Re: Re: Re: classy...

Quote:

Originally posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck
Sounds like a lot of post-hoc rationalization to me.

And, at any rate, your so-called "definitions" proved my point, which is that using "class" distinctions as a method of judgment is totally useless.

Ask anyone who knows me how I define class and you will know that it is not post hoc rationalizations. Unlike you, I can admit when I am wrong. Or I can simply disagree. You just are too simple to understand the many layers of the words i use. I am quite sure barely for one would know what I was talking about. And DS for another. So please dont project your simple way of handling things upon me. You and I are not in the same class, so to speak. But you would kick my ass at web designing.

evenodds

04-01-2003 02:49 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Most of what you say makes sense to me, TM, but women and men are not similarly situated in this regard. Comments from male passersby have a latent threatening aspect to them that comments from women to men don't have.

Perhaps the true equalizer is whether you feel the same when a man makes those comments to you.

There is an underlying element of sexual aggression when a man makes statements of a sexual nature to a woman in a situation where she is walking down a street or otherwise somewhat alone or vulnerable.

From discussions with my SO and other male friends, there is a higher level of discomfort when they are whistled at or catcalled by men that is akin to what women experience.

E/O

Oh, and on a completely other matter, "classy" is the most irritating word. Though you were joking in your usage Paigow, just hearing that word is enough to make me tune everything else out.

Alex_de_Large

04-01-2003 02:50 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: classy...

Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Ask anyone who knows me how I define class and you will know that it is not post hoc rationalizations. Unlike you, I can admit when I am wrong. Or I can simply disagree. You just are too simple to understand the many layers of the words i use. I am quite sure barely for one would know what I was talking about. And DS for another. So please dont project your simple way of handling things upon me. You and I are not in the same class, so to speak. But you would kick my ass at web designing.

http://feedback.blackisle.com/images...ntnotfound.jpg

http://feedback.blackisle.com/images...hreadsucks.jpg

Gattigap

04-01-2003 02:50 PM

Re: April Fools Day Poll

Quote:

Originally posted by evenodds
In honor of April Fools Day:

Have you ever been the victim or the perpetrator of a particularly good practical joke?

I once worked in an office where a fellow associate didn't get along with Partner X. Partner X worked down the hall, and had a vacant office next to him.

Associate was out of town for several days prior to his birthday, and we decided (as a "gift") to move his office, including everything in it, into the vacant space.

I got the office maintenance crew to buy in to the joke, and (after taking polaroids of the placement of all items in this disaster area of an office) we moved every stick of furniture and every piece of paper down the hall and recreated his office.

The plan worked well, until the chair of the office sat me down and explained that while he admired the creativity of the plan, it could not stand. I had to move it all back.

We did so, and (thanks to the polaroids) succeeded in placing everything in its original place to the degree that the associate never knew anything had been moved.

Boxmuncher

04-01-2003 02:51 PM

Re: Re: Songs about movie stars

I thought of four more songs about actresses:

Rosanna, Toto (about Rosanna Arquette)
Bette Davis Eyes, Kim Carnes
Kiss Them for Me, Siouxie and the Banchees (about Jayne Mansfield)
Claudine, Rolling Stones (about actress Claudine Longet--Andy Williams' wife, who shot and killed olympic skiier Spider Sabitch http://home.swipnet.se/~w-35264/lyrics/claudine.html)

paigowprincess

04-01-2003 02:51 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: classy...

And I have never denied that I am judgmental. Who isn't ? Besdes the born again Sebby I mean. I just recently said I was very into glittering generalities just the other day. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China anyway? Do I judge people I perceive to be tasteless, immodest, unelegant and flashy? Hell yeah. But I am sure you are a lovely person anyway MR. And what you dont know about me is that in certain situations, I might forgive your shortcomings Because I am only superficially judgmental.

Alex_de_Large

04-01-2003 02:53 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: classy...

Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
And I have never denied that I am judgmental. Who isn't ? Besdes the born again Sebby I mean. I just recently said I was very into glittering generalities just the other day. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China anyway? Do I judge people I perceive to be tasteless, immodest, unelegant and flashy? Hell yeah. But I am sure you are a lovely person anyway MR. And what you dont know about me is that in certain situations, I might forgive your shortcomings Because I am only superficially judgmental.

ENOUGH!!!

http://feedback.blackisle.com/images...thisthread.jpg

paigowprincess

04-01-2003 03:02 PM

ADL

While normally you are the occasional blip on my computer monitor with a five word post that is rarely witty, funny, or insightful and usually adds nothign to the conversation and thus makes no indelible impression on me except that you are exceptionally politically correct (hell, can anyone even attribute a persona to you besides guy from Pennsylvania?), you did show up in a dream I had last night. I was in the backseat of Neigh's car and we pulled over to talk to you on the street for some reason. You were a really tall hairy guy with a foreign accent who finished the brief pointless, why did we stop to talk to this guy, converstaino and slipped back into the shadows of some eerie looking high rise to do god knows what. Strange dream.

And being able to cut and paste really large pictures that take up too much space is not an adequate substitute for funniness. just look at MR's posts

Alex_de_Large

04-01-2003 03:08 PM

Re: ADL

Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
... trying to be funny yet insulting...

http://www.dslreports.com/r0/downloa.../deadhorse.gif

purse junkie

04-01-2003 03:22 PM

Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
[B]Paigow,

"Who wants some pervy leery stranger ogling you."

I have yet to meet a woman who doesn't like the idea that when she passes, heads turn.

"I am not a performance artist or a an object to be ogled."

Then why all the dolling up? Who exactly buys all those copies of Vogue, Elle and Cosmo? Who spends a load on moisturizers, makeup, haircuts, manicures, pedicures, waxings? Who spends hours picking out bathing suits, dresses, etc... Come on. Of course you want to look as attractive as possible.

Unburying this thread briefly because I helped to start the argument.

Sebby, like it or not, your second paragraph is the classic 'she asked for it' defense used by harassers to justify their behavior. This of course doesn't make you a date rapist or harasser. It does place you on the continuum of victim-blaming asses.

Back to ladylike and gentlemanly discreet polite ogling.

Pushy the Puppy

04-01-2003 03:28 PM

Re: Songs About Movie Stars

1. Lisa Ling and Lucy Liu - Mike Doughty
2. Jojo's Jacket - Stephen Malkmus (about Yul Brynner)
3. Brimful of Asha - Cornershop (about Indian movie singers)
4. You Were Right - Badly Drawn Boy (sings about Madonna - bad movie star, but still arguably a movie star)

_________________
Pushy the Puppy
http://www.giantgenius.com/images/stock.jpg

ThurgreedMarshall

04-01-2003 03:42 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I've actually had women who were interested in me accuse me of not being forward enough, or being a snob or a dick because I didn't hit on them. How's that shit work? Just cause I'm a guy I have to chase you are around like a fucking chimp and lay tons of rap? What if I just feel like hanging out with friends and getting fucked up and wait for you to talk to me? Why should I have to got out and figure out who's interested - let her come to me.

Translation: I have no game.

TM

sebastian_dangerfield

04-01-2003 03:42 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by purse junkie
Unburying this thread briefly because I helped to start the argument.

Sebby, like it or not, your second paragraph is the classic 'she asked for it' defense used by harassers to justify their behavior. This of course doesn't make you a date rapist or harasser. It does place you on the continuum of victim-blaming asses.

Back to ladylike and gentlemanly discreet polite ogling.

PJ,

Once the ref counts ten, you can't ask for a decision.

Please don't "like it or not" me when your point is clearly not globally recognized as correct. Emphasis is not proof.

I will not dissect the meaning of my second paragraph because its as plain as day (I'll leave that sort of post-mortem reinterpetation for PP). The only thing such an exercise would serve would be to give you a hook on which to hang a rebuttal. Noting that women want to look attractive (even using negative terms like "dolling up") does not make me an apologist for harrassment or a victim basher. That the phrases I used are somewhat similar to those used by such apologists does not mean the substance is the same. Scan my posts - you won't find a stitch of victim bashing.

I think you read my post quickly, which is easy to do on these boards, and made a snap judgment. I've done it myself many times.

S(a car backfiring may sound like a gun, but that does not make them the same thing)D

bilmore

04-01-2003 03:42 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by leagleaze
If I am alone and a man makes a comment or whistles or stares at me, I feel threatened. That might not be his intent but it is how it makes me feel.

Just to be clear, though, you aren't speaking of a right that you have not to be stared at, correct? You are speaking of proper and polite behavior by the guy. right? But not claiming that your right to "not feel threatened by having your chest stared at" overrides my right to, without physical contact or threatening words or gestures, stare where I want?

(Just wondering how far this perception goes.)

sebastian_dangerfield

04-01-2003 03:47 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Translation: I have no game.

TM

TM,

Touche. I was always terrible in bars.

Now at parties it was a different story...

Shit... who am I kidding. I wasn't that good there either.

S(thank God for booze and the fact that I ain't bad lookin)D

Not Bob

04-01-2003 03:48 PM

movie stars in song

I can't believe someone named "box muncher" (I think) beat me with Toto's "Rosanna." Ah well.

Other songs? How about Carly Simon's "You're So Vain"? It was allegedly written about Warren Beatty. He was where he should be all the time. When he wasn't, he was with some underworld spy, or the wife of a close friend. Clearly vain.

And, while David Geffen is not a movie star, he now owns one third of a movie studio. So he counts, rightt? Anyway, Geffen is the dude in Joni Mitchell's "Free Man in Paris" written when Geffen was a music exec, dating Joni, and straight. NTTAWWT.

Replaced_Texan

04-01-2003 03:49 PM

Re: Songs about movie stars

Quote:

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
Can anyone help me with a list of songs about (preferably female) movie stars? I heard the original Candle in the Wind, and started trying to think of more. I haven't come up with very many:

Candle in the Wind
Uptown Girl
and the best of my short list:
One-Eyed Fiona (Julia Roberts -- sample lyric: "Her daddy's gone to heaven/her momma won't like you/her brother he's crazy/just might bite you").

Any more?

I'm too lazy to scroll to see if anyone's mentioned Bette Davis Eyes, not specifically about a movie star, but certainly references one.

leagleaze

04-01-2003 03:50 PM

Staring

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Just to be clear, though, you aren't speaking of a right that you have not to be stared at, correct? You are speaking of proper and polite behavior by the guy. right? But not claiming that your right to "not feel threatened by having your chest stared at" overrides my right to, without physical contact or threatening words or gestures, stare where I want?

(Just wondering how far this perception goes.)

Sure, you have that right, I would just think you were an ass.

former gov't

04-01-2003 03:54 PM

I thought "You're so vain" was about Mick Jagger?

Tyrone Slothrop

04-01-2003 03:55 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Interesting. Leagl was talking about the effects of leering on her, and bilmore changed the subject to "rights."

leagleaze

04-01-2003 03:58 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Interesting. Leagl was talking about the effects of leering on her, and bilmore changed the subject to "rights."

Yes, it was rather out of left field. Or is it right field.

Whichever

bilmore

04-01-2003 04:01 PM

Re: Staring

Quote:

Originally posted by leagleaze
Sure, you have that right, I would just think you were an ass.

I understand that. I was just getting the impression that the conversation was treading very closely to the idea that staring at a women's clothed chest was a violation of a specific right.

Interesting that, when you read all of the posts in this thread, you can see very different subtexts in each one that pull the post meanings way away from the specific words of the other posters. Everyone here was right, and everyone here was arguing completely different points and issues from each other.

purse junkie

04-01-2003 04:02 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Right. Just like I had the right to glance then snort derisively towards the package region of a guy who did that to me. It certainly solved the problem.

paigowprincess

04-01-2003 04:05 PM

PM question

Anyone know how to forward PMs?

Never fuck with the paigow. mmmmmmmmmmmmhahahahahahaha

leagleaze

04-01-2003 04:05 PM

Re: PM question

Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Anyone know how to forward PMs?

Never fuck with the paigow. mmmmmmmmmmmmhahahahahahaha

Sure, there is a forward button down at the bottom of the screen.

purse junkie

04-01-2003 04:08 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by purse junkie
Right. Just like I had the right to glance then snort derisively towards the package region of a guy who did that to me. It certainly solved the problem.

BTW Bilmore I know you weren't advocating such behavior of course, in case my wiseass comment gave the impression otherwise.

Perhaps what's needed is a nice new Handbook on Scoping Behavior for the Civilized. So that well-meaning folks on either side don't have to walk on eggshells wondering if they've crossed the line.

DS, please come back!

ThurgreedMarshall

04-01-2003 04:08 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Absolutely, and I think I included that when I noted that there are physical differences between men and women that may contribute to why a woman isn't as comfortable with it.

But, I know plenty of women who tell me all about the comments they receive. Usually, it's annoying (and I understand that), but I have heard from hot women the following: "How do I look today? I haven't heard one comment all day long and I walked here all the way from [whatever] st. Do I look bad today?" Insecurity aside, I take it such comments aren't always perceived as negative.

While this might not actually mean that they like hearing comments on their appearance, it does mean some women take note. And my question still stands. Is it always a bad thing?

TM

Not Bob

04-01-2003 04:09 PM

music, movies, vanity, etc.

Quote:

Originally posted by former gov't
I thought "You're so vain" was about Mick Jagger?

Mick is also a theory, as is Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone (back when he was straight). However, I seem to recall that the consensus pick among music critics (I don't think Carly has ever said anything) is that Warren is the guy. Apparently, Carly and Warren once dated. And Warren had a scarf that was apricot.

One other song -- Bob Seger's "Her Strut" is reportedly about Jane Fonda.

paigowprincess

04-01-2003 04:12 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fake Tits and Str**sand

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall

But, I know plenty of women who tell me all about the comments they receive. Usually, it's annoying (and I understand that), but I have heard from hot women the following: "How do I look today? I haven't heard one comment all day long and I walked here all the way from [whatever] st. Do I look bad today?" Insecurity aside, I take it such comments aren't always perceived as negative.

TM

I hope you tell your friend to get over herself. God, what an asshole. How do people say things like that with a straight face? And who cares if they look bad on any given day. She probably was heading to the bar to meet SD who would then proceed to not hit on her and she would call him a dick or a snob.

SlaveNoMore

04-01-2003 04:19 PM

Re: music, movies, vanity, etc.

Quote:

Not Bob
Mick is also a theory...

I never understood how anyone could believe this.

Carly:
"Hey Mick, I wrote this really obnoxious song about you. Would you mind singing backup on it?"

I also thought it was clear that is was about [her ex] James Taylor?

not7yS

soup sandwich

04-01-2003 04:23 PM

Re: music, movies, vanity, etc.

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
Mick is also a theory, as is Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone (back when he was straight). However, I seem to recall that the consensus pick among music critics (I don't think Carly has ever said anything) is that Warren is the guy. Apparently, Carly and Warren once dated. And Warren had a scarf that was apricot.

One other song -- Bob Seger's "Her Strut" is reportedly about Jane Fonda.

Not that it means the song is or isn't about him, but Mick is actually singing back-up in that song. It's most noticeable toward the end. Listen. Hear him?

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