Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Perhaps it would be better for families if the children saw their parents having to learn how to make better choices, or, for that matter, make choices at all.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I read something local this morning that suggested it was a toss-up. You can't get much more of a toss-up than 50-50. The people I listen to down here (I've given up on trying to talk to anybody, might as well converse with a stump) are firm in their decisions on /trump or Hillary and aren't likely to be swayed by anything less than a 2x4 upside the head.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I am pretty sure I said you can't put someone in prison simply for being a bad parent, but you could do something about abusive or neglectful parents. Assclam.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I am distressed by the fact that it seems to be a generally accepted principal on this board that people who, for generations, have been forced into forgotten and intentionally neglected areas in which it is illegal to simply exist as a human being, and have the most limited of educational, employment, health, nutrition, and basic living opportunities are in a position to just make better choices. The people who escape from these places, whether it be by talent or sheer will (their parents' or their own) are incredibly exceptional people. And they are few and far between for a reason.

This view that parents in the most awful of situations who don't see education as a pursuable fucking option for their children are somehow ignoring readily available evidence that it is the answer is insane. They have no evidence that education is the answer--at least no more so than playing basketball is. People in the projects don't fucking know any doctors, lawyers, engineers, investment bankers, or accountants. They know what they see. And what they see is the product of generations of oppression and neglect.

"Make better choices using your second grade education and 70 hour, minimum wage work week, asshole." Right.

TM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Okay, you know more than me. What would you do? Kids go to school voluntarily or because they are compelled to. We both know you did better in school and had more success afterward because your parents expected it of you.

What's your alternative?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Hm. I'm not sure I agree with your implication here. Sure, one thing engaged parent do is hold the teacher accountable, I'd think the much more important thing is holding junior accountable.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

For Atticus:

In short, as the author concludes, Japan’s zoning laws are more rational, more efficient and fairer than those used in the United States.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Clearly: if they're well-lubricated enough to avoid injury, they can understand things better.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I didn't grow up in the projects. I grew up near them. My mother was very well educated and I had advantages in travel and experience when growing up that most adults could only dream of.

The project kids I knew only left their neighborhood to go Six Flags once a year on a field trip with our shitty public school. Maybe. Their whole world consisted of a five block radius and television. They were often left alone because even in Section 8 housing, their parents had multiple jobs just to put food on the table. I've told stories here of the games these kids played which basically amounted to stealing so they could have something to eat. I won't talk about incarceration for selling or possessing weed or the basic, every day danger of living in the projects. But thinking that anyone in these circumstances can just decide to make their kids' educations a priority in the same way you might is crazy.

Yeah. Tear down all projects/Section 8 housing, spread low income families all over the place with halfway decent housing and affordable housing so neighborhoods all have a true mix of classes and there are no concentrations of the super-poor. Allow everyone to vote (felons included) and make it a public holiday. Fund all public schools equally (per capita). Tax private schools to fund shortfalls in public schools. Increase the minimum wage. Provide access to daycare everywhere. End racism. Maintain these changes for 5 generations and reevaluate at that point. I suppose that's a good start.

TM

Re: Charter Schools
 

I'm always torn between approaches that give a few a lot of opportunity and approaches that give many a little opportunity.

I know I'm where I am because of an approach that gave a few a lot of opportunity - I got pulled out of public schools where the top two students in my class, the ones I competed with when I was there, went to the local two year college community college and the Fashion Institute of Technology, respectively. Yes, the school would have been better with me in it, but it would have sucked for me and I wouldn't be the over-educated professional posting bs on the internet that I am today.

The sad thing is, with today's resources and approaches, we can't give a lot of people a lot of opportunity.

We have a massive problem today, which is that social mobility is declining instead of increasing, and so few people are getting either kind of opportunity. More of the problems are going to become intractable if that continues. I personally think Obama has done an enormous amount with the power of the Presidency to address that, but, fundamentally, we need a lot more from Congress and the states. And Congress has done squat (perhaps even less than squat) and the Red States in particular are too busy debating whether to teach creationism to figure out how to teach kids.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

For the sake of clarity, when I said, "better choices" I meant that if you hand people cash assistance they don't just go out and blow it on booze and drugs or whatever, as people and policy makers seem to fear. I think Wonk is right, generally, to trust those who receive assistance to be able to make responsible decisions with the money they get.

But I think you've outlined very good reasons why more proactive intervention is necessary here.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

As long as we're dreaming, I'd focus funding on schools not on per capita but on a need basis. An urban school that has a lot of immigrants who speak English as a second language, a lot of kids who need supplementary meals programs, and a lot of kids who may not have a safe way of going home after school has more need than a suburban all white all rich school.

There is a reason I advocate strongly to hire every kid who comes out of law school after being raised poor, whether urban poor or rural poor. On the whole, they're just tougher, harder working and of better character than rich kids from the 'burbs.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

What's really sad is that Savage Inequalities is probably a more important read now than when it came out, almost thirty years ago.

People need to read it. https://www.amazon.com/Savage-Inequa.../dp/0770435688

TM

Tim Wise
 

And on the "Is racism dispositive when it comes to whether one is a Trump supporter" needs to read more Tim Wise.

http://www.salon.com/2016/08/22/ther...m-the-shadows/

TM