Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Pretty sure Penske would be glad to help with the boxed wine.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

". . . no, not F - L - O - U - R. It's Flower like the plant, F - L - O - W - E - R."

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Yes, time for you to start relaxing.

The menu looks amazing. Within a week I'll have to make the onion soup/Detroit pizza choice.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I know people that fucking love him, and went for Jill or stayed home. I hear that shit coming this time I. Will. Hit. them.

If I can just hit 10,000 people I think I can promise Michigan.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

The analysis is simple.

I don’t wish to get the worst of both worlds: No significant change and higher taxes.

If I’m going to pay more, I want to know I’m getting something in return. With someone like Warren, I suspect we’d get bankruptcy reform and millennial loan relief (both probably) which I see creating a nice multiplier for the Main St economy. With Hillary, and perhaps Biden, it’s just increased taxes and no real attempt at significant change, because that change would harm their institutional and corporate benefactors.

I want a return on my investment. If I must pay more, I want policies that allow the little guy to climb the ladder. Subsistence safety nets provided to him via programs are just a way of placating him. No multiplier is created and he remains another of the hundred or so million debt serfs propping up the rentier economy.

I see no cash or societal value in an investment in a corporate Democrat.

Correction: The market does tend to do better under corporate Ds. But this a bit selfish, no? Because people who are floundering right now in the Main St economy aren’t invested.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Last time I was in Minneapolis I jumped in a cab and said, "take me to where PLF usually eats." Guy pulled in to Deja Vu.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Third party voter in a nutshell. Zero understanding that you get the change you want by working in coalition within a party that entertains your ideas and values, not by opting out and allowing the one that does not to take power.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

If you know a way to hit people and get them to vote for a Democrat, please let me know. That sounds both fun and useful.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Man, you’ve limitless naïveté.

That approach gets you slow played, pacified. You think corporate Dems want real change? They’re just playing the progressives while actually working against any meaningful change. Just like the old guard GOP used to placate the evangelicals with promises of overturning Roe while doing nothing to actually achieve that result (as it was political suicide) and appointing moderate judges who upheld it (Kennedy, Souter, O’Connor).

Real change only comes in the teeth of a catastrophe. If you want to see real radical change like the New Deal era policies, your best strategy would be to vote for Trump. He’s the most likely to preside over a terrible crisis.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

The naïveté is yours. It allows you to believe that if you only vote for people you like, you’ll eventually win. It’s a view point that, strangely, ignores what you lose when what you don’t want wins.

Yeah, in your case, it’s because you don’t actually want what you say you want and instead use it as an excuse to instead vote for tax cuts for yourself. You’re not really covering your narcissism but keep trying.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Really nothing but admiration for the move here. Law is a turrble business.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Detroit Pizza!!!!

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Dunno, I only eat at Chick Fil A.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

The "corporate Dems" all voted for universal healthcare. There was no crisis, just meaningful change. Republicans all tried to stop it. You agreed with them. Who was slow played and pacified?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Speaking as someone who gets called "establishment", "neoliberal", "globalist", "corporate", and various other things, can I just say "Fuck Ya!" to real change.

You just watch the change we have in our agenda.

Of course, you'll just whine a lot while it happens.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Did I disagree with ACA? I’m not so sure. I was not terribly interested in that. And I think I’ve gone on record saying that single payer could divert tons of money out of HC admin and into other sectors with better multipliers.

If I had any objection to ACA, it probably was in regard to insurers remaining a significant part of it. Or I might have feared what it might do to family members who are docs.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You’ll never do serious bkcy reform that would make it easier for kids to shed debt (incl. student debt). You’ll never do millennial debt forgiveness. Banks and investors will freak about how it would drive rates high and harm old people living on pensions and investments. And Big Education would lose their minds, as higher borrowing costs would force them to freeze tuition.

There’s never going to be a financial transaction tax, either. Same reasons.

These are real policies that would help the kids. Green New Deal? It’s nice, but it’s not seriously possible to implement over timeline where it’ll help the lower 85%. And Corp Ds will settle for carbon credits. Dust off Gore policies.

Corp Ds might do some form UBI. That I agree. That’s good.

ETA: Corp Ds, like Corp Rs, will never get behind policies which undermine “transaction man’s” grip on wealth here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-co...cs-11567782178

And I’m not sure I want them to. Corp Ds benefit me. But for the same reason I can’t vote for Trump, who benefits me differently but pretty much equally, I can’t vote for them. And I don’t have to. I know either way, a Corp D or Corp R will always win. But I don’t have to help them. I can take what I get and keep a conscience of sorts.

But Warren? I can vote for her. It’d hurt but be worth it.

Nadal/Medvedev
 

Jesus Christ. I’m exhausted.

"Democracy is devouring itself... and it won’t last."
 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...mocracy-228045

“In well-established democracies like the United States, democratic governance will continue its inexorable decline and will eventually fail.”

. . .

What is happening around the world shows that the far-right is on the march. And when it comes to the U.S., the problem might be larger than one man. Liberals have been praying for the end of the Trump presidency, but if Rosenberg is right, democracy will remain under threat no matter who is in power."

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You whine a lot.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I know. I need a TV show where I can bring on left and right, insult both, then tell the audience we're fucked and they should go home and drink.

It'd be like Firing Line. I'd take long pauses like Buckley between Lewis Black-like freakouts.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You did here, but you like to be a contrarian so who knows what you really thought.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Why choose? No one said you couldn't have it all.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

They just call it, "The Vu," in MN.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I always get whiplash watching you transition from diagnosing what's wrong with our politics to explaining the transactional analysis you engage in to decide how to vote. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, since it's almost as if you walk through the latter to illustrate the depths of the former. One almost believes you might actually care about the some of the broader problems you describe, and then you lance that boil with a narrow prick of your own self-interest. Bravo.

Re: Thank God Sebby Hasn't Bred
 

Re: Thank God Sebby Hasn't Bred
 

Yep.

Maybe we haven't been taking Don Jr. seriously enough.

Re: Thank God Sebby Hasn't Bred
 

Have any Trumps killed women in moving vehicles? We really can’t take another of that sort dynasty.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Re: Thank God Sebby Hasn't Bred
 

I’ve not only bred, but had a really fucking strange encounter with one of Don Jr’s exes. Very aggressive chick.

Re: Thank God Sebby Hasn't Bred
 

Indeed. It’s Always Sunny in Washington. Mac is the secret genius.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I’ll vote for Warren. That’s not in my self interest. I have an r/e thing coming through on which Trump could save me a lot. There’s every reason for me to vote for him, but I can’t. He bugs me in some way I can’t fully explain.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I can’t recall myself. I think I’ve developed a reluctance to embrace anything because I’ve come to think most things are either pointless or helpless. If you apply a purely rational perspective to the current condition of things, becoming invested in or exercised about things fails almost any sensible cost/benefit analysis.

But then this little pilot light, which I can’t snuff, gets me pissed. But I’ve realized, increasingly, it’s not some grand desire to see justice or fairness, but an annoyance with dumbness and the way masses of people, when attempting to govern themselves, become dark comedies.

We really are ungovernable. It’s just too unwieldy.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

[QUOTE=sebastian_dangerfield;524821]I bet you can't see why this:

"I have an r/e thing coming through on which Trump could save me a lot."

and this:

"There’s every reason for me to vote for him..."

don't work, especially in the same thought.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Yes, what could it be?

The way he says and does racists things, and enables and legitimizes extremist groups with racist and xenophobic views and agendas? No, I'm super white and only oppose racism in the most abstract of ways.

The way he demeans women, has almost certainly engaged in significant sexual misconduct, and otherwise legitimizes misogynistic behavior? Um, no. I'm a dude, so no worries there for me. And I sure don't want to encourage those #metoo vigilantes.

The way he is a climate change denier and has appointed individuals (and taken actions himself) that will gut the environmental protections that could slow what appear to be increasingly dangerous consequences of global warming? Ha! My lip service to the environment is just that. I'll be dead before the most severe consequences come to pass.

You should get the words "Narrow Prick of Self Interest" tattooed across your chest.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Are you calling me fat?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

No, but that avatar makes your ass look big.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It's long 'cause I have a tail.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

On the one hand, Bolton out has to decrease the chances of a new war or major escalation of an existing one. On the other, starting a war as an electoral strategy doesn't seem out of the question for this administration. On a third, 45 has been way less warlike than I expected.

Totally crazy, though, that Bolton seems to have been done in by telling the president not to invite the Taliban to Camp David during the week of 9/11.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Trump is a bully, and doesn't seem to want to fight with anyone. To paraphrase Ziskin in Stripes, he never ever wants to pick a fight with anyone unless he's absolutely sure that he can get away with it, and he isn't.

Bolton was done in by the fact that he has strong opinions and thinks he knows better than the President. People like that don't last in this White House.