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-   -   Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=880)

Tyrone Slothrop 01-03-2018 11:45 AM

Re: May You All Enjoy Your End Times!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 512201)
Survival is increasingly seeming like a high expectation. Now it appears that we may die because Trump as a tiny penis. Fucking brilliant.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/02/politi...ear/index.html

Not to downplay the threat of nuclear war or anything, but Trump is a coward who does not seem to be particularly interested in going to war with anyone, or rather anyone who might punch back. He is more likely to get us into conflicts by letting the military escalate over time, as they have in the Middle East and Africa.

This is an excellent way of understanding what he is up to, with Norea Korea (which is really more of a pro-wrestling relationship with Kim personally, who makes an excellent villain) and more generally.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-03-2018 02:32 PM

Re: May You All Enjoy Your End Times!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512202)
Not to downplay the threat of nuclear war or anything, but Trump is a coward who does not seem to be particularly interested in going to war with anyone, or rather anyone who might punch back. He is more likely to get us into conflicts by letting the military escalate over time, as they have in the Middle East and Africa.

This is an excellent way of understanding what he is up to, with Norea Korea (which is really more of a pro-wrestling relationship with Kim personally, who makes an excellent villain) and more generally.

2. They’re a perfectly matched... match.

Foreign policy has always been about pretending things, about pretexts, and face saving cover-up narratives. About avoidance of zero sum scenarios risking unacceptable mutually assured damage. This is just a Vince McMahon version of it, no?

Replaced_Texan 01-03-2018 02:50 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
The Bannon Trump war is highly entertaining for someone who loathes both. May the knives of both strike true.

Somehow or another, I'm sure it'll end up fucking over something I hold dear, though.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-03-2018 03:09 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 512204)
The Bannon Trump war is highly entertaining for someone who loathes both. May the knives of both strike true.

Two Men Enter,
One Man Leaves!

Tyrone Slothrop 01-03-2018 03:22 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

On December 14, a high-level delegation from Silicon Valley came to Trump Tower to meet him. Later that afternoon, according to a source privy to details of the conversation, Trump called Rupert Murdoch, who asked him how the meeting had gone.

“Oh, great, just great,” said Trump. “These guys really need my help. Obama was not very favorable to them, too much regulation. This is really an opportunity for me to help them.”

“Donald,” said Murdoch, “for eight years these guys had Obama in their pocket. They practically ran the administration. They don’t need your help.”

“Take this H-1B visa issue. They really need these H-1B visas.”

Murdoch suggested that taking a liberal approach to H-1B visas, which open America’s doors to select immigrants, might be hard to square with his promises to build a wall and close the borders. But Trump seemed unconcerned, assuring Murdoch, “We’ll figure it out.”

“What a fucking idiot,” said Murdoch, shrugging, as he got off the phone.
from the Wolff book

Tyrone Slothrop 01-03-2018 04:24 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Hot take: Manafort's suit isn't a legal argument, but an effort to prompt Trump to fire Rosenstein and Mueller.

SEC_Chick 01-04-2018 09:24 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
The book excerpts are pretty entertaining, but the best part is how both the Trump and Bannon camps are pretty much acting like it's all true.

I bet that book sells more copies than What Happened, and hopefully Trump won't start a war to distract from it, but keeps on claiming he's responsible for aircraft safety or that he invented the question mark.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-04-2018 10:45 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 512208)
The book excerpts are pretty entertaining, but the best part is how both the Trump and Bannon camps are pretty much acting like it's all true.

I bet that book sells more copies than What Happened, and hopefully Trump won't start a war to distract from it, but keeps on claiming he's responsible for aircraft safety or that he invented the question mark.

I hate being caught between equally compelling analogies. "Digging the hole deeper"? Or, "Falling into an obvious trap"?

Either way, moronic: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=52134956

Tyrone Slothrop 01-04-2018 12:03 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 512208)
The book excerpts are pretty entertaining, but the best part is how both the Trump and Bannon camps are pretty much acting like it's all true.

So much of Trump's statement about Bannon is obviously projection. “Steve pretends to be at war with the media, which he calls the opposition party, yet he spent his time at the White House leaking false information to the media to make himself seem far more important than he was. It is the only thing he does well.” Um, yup.

I would like to see a Trump supporter read this and explain it away.

Replaced_Texan 01-04-2018 01:47 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512210)
So much of Trump's statement about Bannon is obviously projection. “Steve pretends to be at war with the media, which he calls the opposition party, yet he spent his time at the White House leaking false information to the media to make himself seem far more important than he was. It is the only thing he does well.” Um, yup.

I would like to see a Trump supporter read this and explain it away.

I think it's pretty clear by now that analysis and critical thinking are not really part of the day-to-day when it comes to Trump supporters.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-04-2018 02:29 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Most interesting thing I've read about Trump today is John Judis's suggestion that part of the reason he seems ill-informed, listens so little, and talks so much is that he has a hearing problem and is too vain to deal with it by getting a hearing aid. Makes a lot of sense.

Replaced_Texan 01-04-2018 03:55 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512212)
Most interesting thing I've read about Trump today is John Judis's suggestion that part of the reason he seems ill-informed, listens so little, and talks so much is that he has a hearing problem and is too vain to deal with it by getting a hearing aid. Makes a lot of sense.

Both my father and father-in-law are under the impression that they can hear when they can't really. Neither is remotely like Trump in terms of information retention, attempt to listen, though both like to talk. They both also read. A lot. The "barely literate narcissist" theory makes much more sense.

Adder 01-04-2018 04:13 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 512213)
Both my father and father-in-law are under the impression that they can hear when they can't really. Neither is remotely like Trump in terms of information retention, attempt to listen, though both like to talk. They both also read. A lot. The "barely literate narcissist" theory makes much more sense.

Barely literate narcissist with dementia.

Although I wouldn't be surprised about learning that any particular part of his body doesn't function.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-04-2018 04:35 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 512213)
Both my father and father-in-law are under the impression that they can hear when they can't really. Neither is remotely like Trump in terms of information retention, attempt to listen, though both like to talk. They both also read. A lot. The "barely literate narcissist" theory makes much more sense.

Why not both?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-04-2018 05:13 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512215)
Why not both?

My experience with older folks with trouble hearing is that they develop a lot of compensating tools, whether it is reading more text or trying to lip read or having people repeat themselves. It may be the hearing issue exacerbates the other issues, but those issues are what's at the root of his problems.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-04-2018 05:15 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 512208)
The book excerpts are pretty entertaining, but the best part is how both the Trump and Bannon camps are pretty much acting like it's all true.

I bet that book sells more copies than What Happened, and hopefully Trump won't start a war to distract from it, but keeps on claiming he's responsible for aircraft safety or that he invented the question mark.

We need the equivalent book on Republicans in Congress. They may be better at hiding their dementia, but it's there.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-05-2018 11:44 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 512216)
My experience with older folks with trouble hearing is that they develop a lot of compensating tools, whether it is reading more text or trying to lip read or having people repeat themselves. It may be the hearing issue exacerbates the other issues, but those issues are what's at the root of his problems.

I've observed it creates a bit of paranoia, not inconsistent with Trump's behavior.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-05-2018 11:51 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 512218)
I've observed it creates a bit of paranoia, not inconsistent with Trump's behavior.

There is more than a bit with Trump.

Sloppy Steve is haunting him.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-05-2018 11:51 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Seems to me like Steve Bannon is being written off too quickly. He has a constituency in what is now the Republican Party, and if he can keep his pulpit at Breitbart he is going to stay in the game.

It's a little odd to me that Trump has been so stung by what he said to Wolff, because what a lot of other people said was a lot worse. Maybe Bannon's real sin for The Donald was in thinking of himself as a potential successor to Trump -- talking about a possible run for the Presidency himself. The Donald cares more about being alpha than anything else. But it seems highly possible that other people around the Donald are getting him riled up about Bannon to put a shiv in a rival.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-05-2018 12:02 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512220)
Seems to me like Steve Bannon is being written off too quickly. He has a constituency in what is now the Republican Party, and if he can keep his pulpit at Breitbart he is going to stay in the game.

It's a little odd to me that Trump has been so stung by what he said to Wolff, because what a lot of other people said was a lot worse. Maybe Bannon's real sin for The Donald was in thinking of himself as a potential successor to Trump -- talking about a possible run for the Presidency himself. The Donald cares more about being alpha than anything else. But it seems highly possible that other people around the Donald are getting him riled up about Bannon to put a shiv in a rival.

This is a lover's quarrel. They will make up. They hate too many people in common to ever really part.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-05-2018 02:00 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512220)
Seems to me like Steve Bannon is being written off too quickly. He has a constituency in what is now the Republican Party, and if he can keep his pulpit at Breitbart he is going to stay in the game.

It's a little odd to me that Trump has been so stung by what he said to Wolff, because what a lot of other people said was a lot worse. Maybe Bannon's real sin for The Donald was in thinking of himself as a potential successor to Trump -- talking about a possible run for the Presidency himself. The Donald cares more about being alpha than anything else. But it seems highly possible that other people around the Donald are getting him riled up about Bannon to put a shiv in a rival.

The Mercers want him out at Breitbart. http://www.townandcountrymag.com/soc...-steve-bannon/

BTW, sartorially, the Disheveled Donald, with his tie between his knees and his nuts, and his off the rack pleated-pants suit collection, has little gravitas to coin "Sloppy Steve." These two would both fit well in Monty Capuletti's "Regular Guy" Fashion Show.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-05-2018 02:14 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 512221)
This is a lover's quarrel. They will make up. They hate too many people in common to ever really part.

Well put. Also, Jeet Heer is usually right, as here:

Quote:

The obituaries of Bannon are premature, though, because the man’s chief significance wasn’t as a political adviser who had the ear of the president, but as one of the Republican Party’s most creative and influential thinkers. In an age where most Republicans are still running on the fumes of Reaganism (tax cuts, a more assertive foreign policy), Bannon crafted a coherent new right-wing ideology that in 2016 excited Republican voters more than the establishment’s tired bromides. Bannon, the political operative and media executive, has a murky future, but if he does resurface, it’ll be due to the potency and resiliency of his ideas, which are likely to have a life quite apart from Bannon.

Bannonism is a modernized version of the paleo-conservative politics that Pat Buchanan espoused in the 1980s and 1990s. Rejecting the sunny free-market dogmas of Reaganism, Buchanan argued that the American working class was being eroded by free trade and open immigration, while the nation as a whole was weakened by military overreach that no longer made sense after the demise of Soviet Union. Bannon would revive all of these themes in the Obama era, fusing them with an overarching message of racial grievance. On the website Breitbart and elsewhere, Bannon painted a picture of white working class Americans under siege from a globalist elite, cunning foreigners, and a restless non-white underclass.

Trump won both the GOP nomination and the presidency by talking like a Bannonist. He promised to build a wall on the Mexican border, to get tough with China, and to “rip up” trade agreements like NAFTA. In his inaugural address, he painted a dark picture of “American carnage” and advanced nationalism as the cure. “The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed across the entire world,” Trump declared. “From this moment on, it’s going to be America First. Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs, will be made to benefit American workers and American families.”

But Trump hasn’t governed like a Bannonist. While he has initiated an immigration crackdown and waged several culture wars—criticizing NFL players who kneel to protest racism, for instance, and declaring that he saved “Merry Christmas”—on many issues he sides with the GOP establishment. He’s handed over economic policy to House Speaker Paul Ryan, and foreign policy to national security adviser H. R. McMaster, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, and United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley. The triumph of the establishment was almost inevitable, given that the Bannon wing has no real institutional foothold in the think tanks that supply Republican administrations with personnel. As Bannon himself said at a private dinner a year ago, according to Wolff, “When you take out all the Never Trump guys who signed all those letters and all the neocons who got us in all these wars … it’s not a deep bench.” The result has been plutocratic tax cuts and a neoconservative foreign policy, with no infrastructure spending or drawback of American interventionism.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-05-2018 03:27 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512223)
Well put. Also, Jeet Heer is usually right, as here:

Which came first, the xenophobia or the xenophobe?

I'm not sure this is really an intellectual achievement. He's pretty much chased the xenophobic positions that polled best. I can't think of anything he's written that comes across as thoughtful, or any discussion he's participated in that I found challenging or subtle.

That said, it takes a certain courage to hold to these positions despite all evidence to the contrary, and I think his recognition that one can consistently espouse total bullshit is, indeed, something of an earth-shattering right-wing epiphany.

SEC_Chick 01-05-2018 04:35 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
I dare all of you to look up Sloppy Steve in the Urban Dictionary.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-05-2018 05:09 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 512225)
I dare all of you to look up Sloppy Steve in the Urban Dictionary.

Santorumesque

Tyrone Slothrop 01-05-2018 06:30 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 512224)
Which came first, the xenophobia or the xenophobe?

I'm not sure this is really an intellectual achievement. He's pretty much chased the xenophobic positions that polled best. I can't think of anything he's written that comes across as thoughtful, or any discussion he's participated in that I found challenging or subtle.

That said, it takes a certain courage to hold to these positions despite all evidence to the contrary, and I think his recognition that one can consistently espouse total bullshit is, indeed, something of an earth-shattering right-wing epiphany.

I think the point is not that Bannon is a great mind, but that he has successfully articulated a strain of conservatism that has a real resonance with a lot of conservatives, if not people who identify more with the Republican Party. What's impressive is not the thought behind it, but the effectiveness.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-05-2018 06:52 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512227)
I think the point is not that Bannon is a great mind, but that he has successfully articulated a strain of conservatism that has a real resonance with a lot of conservatives, if not people who identify more with the Republican Party. What's impressive is not the thought behind it, but the effectiveness.

Yes, I'd agree with that. It's also a very difficult strain of conservatism to attack because it's response to evidence or to convincing counterargument is along the lines of "Cuck!", "Snowflake!" or "(((@#$%^&)))"

Tyrone Slothrop 01-05-2018 07:00 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 512228)
Yes, I'd agree with that. It's also a very difficult strain of conservatism to attack because it's response to evidence or to convincing counterargument is along the lines of "Cuck!", "Snowflake!" or "(((@#$%^&)))"

It's a strain of conservatism with very little cross-over appeal to anyone else, but useful among the types of people most likely to vote in Republican primaries.

Meanwhile, this is right on. Trump is really, really weak, and is only going to get weaker, and this will make him more and more upset.

ThurgreedMarshall 01-08-2018 10:58 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 512208)
...claiming he's responsible for aircraft safety or that he invented the question mark.

This is very well done.

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 01-08-2018 11:30 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512229)
Meanwhile, this is right on. Trump is really, really weak, and is only going to get weaker, and this will make him more and more upset.

The biggest problem in that whole book for Trump is the section where Ivanka makes fun of his hair. Wolff is intentionally trolling him with that. Hits him absolutely everywhere it hurts. Absolutely brilliant. He must be in a rage.

TM

Tyrone Slothrop 01-08-2018 04:05 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Not surprising that Trump's lawyers are trying to figure out how to keep Mueller from interviewing him. The man is incapable of telling the truth, and so many Republicans said lying under oath justified impeaching Bill Clinton.

ThurgreedMarshall 01-08-2018 05:06 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512232)
Not surprising that Trump's lawyers are trying to figure out how to keep Mueller from interviewing him. The man is incapable of telling the truth, and so many Republicans said lying under oath justified impeaching Bill Clinton.

Makes sense to keep him as far away from Mueller as possible, but I think it's more from an admission perspective. Stupidity combined with him being convinced he can't be guilty of anything (let alone collusion) leads to big trouble.

Disagree on your last point. Republicans don't give a fuck what they did in the past. They are past even justifying distinctions at this point.

TM

SEC_Chick 01-08-2018 05:11 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 512233)
Makes sense to keep him as far away from Mueller as possible, but I think it's more from an admission perspective. Stupidity combined with him being convinced he can't be guilty of anything (let alone collusion) leads to big trouble.

Disagree on your last point. Republicans don't give a fuck what they did in the past. They are past even justifying distinctions at this point.

TM

TM's right. Republicans have shown themselves to be unprincipled hacks. But they are great about having ready a claim of Whataboutism for you every time you point it out.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-08-2018 05:50 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 512233)
Makes sense to keep him as far away from Mueller as possible, but I think it's more from an admission perspective. Stupidity combined with him being convinced he can't be guilty of anything (let alone collusion) leads to big trouble.

Disagree on your last point. Republicans don't give a fuck what they did in the past. They are past even justifying distinctions at this point.

TM

My last point was not that they really care, but that it puts them in a more awkward position.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-08-2018 05:53 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 512234)
TM's right. Republicans have shown themselves to be unprincipled hacks. But they are great about having ready a claim of Whataboutism for you every time you point it out.

I didn't care to watch the Miller-Tapper thing that seized Twitter's attention yesterday, but I did see a particularly interesting tweet about it, to the effect that Republicans who used to go on shows like Tapper's would make at least some effort to appeal to reasonable people who might be watching, but that Miller obviously does not care about anyone's opinion except Trump's. It's kinda the opposite of hackery -- he doesn't care at all about making a good impression of voters. Bonus points for honesty.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-08-2018 07:34 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Sweet Jesus. WTF?

The very appearance of this story is highly counterproductive.

Adder 01-09-2018 11:20 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 512302)
Sweet Jesus. WTF?

The very appearance of this story is highly counterproductive.

All we have to do is figure out how much of a bloody nose an autocrat will accept without blooding us back and thus causing a cycle of escalation that could well result in nuclear war. What are you worried about? The president is a genius.

SEC_Chick 01-09-2018 11:50 AM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 512303)
The president is a genius.

A mentally stable genius!

Good Lord do I hate Trump.

Pretty Little Flower 01-09-2018 04:18 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 512304)
A mentally stable genius!

Good Lord do I hate Trump.

Bannon booted from Breitbart. Wouldn't the world seem like a magical place if Bannon somehow took down himself and Trump at the same time? Hahahaha!!! JK. We're gonna have Trump forever. But a guy can dream, right? Just a little dream??? A little sliver of light penetrating the eternal veil of darkness and despair?

Oliver_Wendell_Ramone 01-09-2018 07:13 PM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 512305)
Bannon booted from Breitbart. Wouldn't the world seem like a magical place if Bannon somehow took down himself and Trump at the same time? Hahahaha!!! JK. We're gonna have Trump forever. But a guy can dream, right? Just a little dream??? A little sliver of light penetrating the eternal veil of darkness and despair?

A little sliver of light? I've got a little sliver of light.

Friday night, I attended a benefit concert for Scott Mcaughey, front man of the Young Fresh Fellows and the Minus 5, touring member of R.E.M., and participant in many other musical endeavors. Scott suffered a stroke while touring with Alejandro Escovido back in November. Almost 5 hours of music to help fund medical and rehab costs, from local Portland acts to folks like Justin Townes Earle, M. Ward, and Patterson Hood from the Drive-by Truckers (helped by various Decemberists). James Mercer played a mini-set of Shins greatest hits, then brought out Peter Buck (on mandolin) and Mike Mills to play R.E.M.'s "You are the Everything." Then a full band set of R.E.M. songs with Mills on lead vocals.

Awesome set by Filthy Friends, and Scott was actually able to play bass. Check them out if you haven't; Scott, Peter Buck, and Corin Tucker from Sleater-Kinney. Finally, smoking set from Alejandro Escovido and the Burn Something Beautiful.

A little sliver of light, indeed.


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