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-   -   Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=883)

Tyrone Slothrop 10-07-2019 06:04 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525414)
You are waaaaaay too deep in the weeds. No one is paying attention to Biden's response except the hardestcore of hardcore political junkies and people who want to believe Biden did something wrong. If I were advising Biden, while I wouldn't be asking the media not to book Giuliani, I would tell him to sit back and let Trump blow everything up without giving the underlying bullshit any air from Biden. No need to be out there having clips of him denying this garbage played again and again. Let Trump continue to talk himself into a deeper hole.

The chance he missed was a chance to punch against Trump as the presumptive nominee, elevating himself above the other Dems. And it's not that it hurt him per se, it's that it's telling.

Quote:

And to be fair--although I still think he has the best chance of beating Trump by the biggest margin--on a personal level, I'm not even that sure about Biden's abilities to do the job anymore. He keeps showing signs that he's too old for this shit.
Exactly.

Hank Chinaski 10-07-2019 06:17 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 525412)
I think it probably depends on what happens next. Could be that he doesn't really have much to do with it going forward. Could be the media fixates on him instead. Warren seems to be surging, but she was already doing pretty well (especially with Bernie's health in question now).

OTOH

Umm, no offense but Ty and them say there are no undecided voters.

Hank Chinaski 10-07-2019 06:20 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525414)
You are waaaaaay too deep in the weeds. No one is paying attention to Biden's response except the hardestcore of hardcore political junkies and people who want to believe Biden did something wrong. If I were advising Biden, while I wouldn't be asking the media not to book Giuliani, I would tell him to sit back and let Trump blow everything up without giving the underlying bullshit any air from Biden. No need to be out there having clips of him denying this garbage played again and again. Let Trump continue to talk himself into a deeper hole.

And to be fair--although I still think he has the best chance of beating Trump by the biggest margin--on a personal level, I'm not even that sure about Biden's abilities to do the job anymore. He keeps showing signs that he's too old for this shit.

TM

He is old and befuddled. And to really win big dems need someone who responds to Trump’s shit curtly and cutting. That is, clearly be the sane one.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-07-2019 06:30 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525410)
After last week, does Biden still have a chance?

It's all early still, and he has the money (even if less than some others) to last through the first primaries. The real question is will he inspire any enthusiasm in anyone - right now, he seems to be really good at corralling reluctant supporters, and that kind of support will fade as we get closer to voting.

He can beat this little crap they've thrown at him, and he can still surge and inspire some excitement, but, you know, he's spending too much time with the car in the garage and not enough time with it on the racetrack.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-07-2019 06:32 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 525417)
He is old and befuddled. And to really win big dems need someone who responds to Trump’s shit curtly and cutting. That is, clearly be the sane one.

See, if the centrist can't appeal to Hank, who can he appeal to?

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 12:31 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Hey Sebby, if you want to stop pretending that Republicans and Democrats are the same on income equality for a moment, read this.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 02:04 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
How odd that so many Chinese are upset at Daryl Morey's tweet about Hong Kong, given that Twitter is blocked in China.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-08-2019 03:43 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525421)
How odd that so many Chinese are upset at Daryl Morey's tweet about Hong Kong, given that Twitter is blocked in China.

To be fair, there was about a three minute delay before the outrage hit - which is about the time it takes to get around the block.

Replaced_Texan 10-08-2019 03:47 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Just yesterday I was advising someone that WhatsApp is NOT an appropriate platform for work discussions. We have a secure messaging application for that with the proper measures in place that we can control.

ThurgreedMarshall 10-08-2019 03:50 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525415)
The chance he missed was a chance to punch against Trump as the presumptive nominee, elevating himself above the other Dems. And it's not that it hurt him per se, it's that it's telling.

I got your point. But he's already leading in every poll, which makes him the presumptive nominee. Trump is clearly terrified of running against him. Again, why be out there answering questions about some dumbass conspiracy theory, thus giving it energy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525415)
Exactly.

Yes. Two different points entirely. We disagree on strategy as it relates to the Ukraine story and I don't think that not choosing the strategy you seem to think is best is, "telling." But I do agree that he has lost a step or two and may be too old for office.

TM

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 03:53 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 525423)
Just yesterday I was advising someone that WhatsApp is NOT an appropriate platform for work discussions. We have a secure messaging application for that with the proper measures in place that we can control.

If the House Democrats haven't sent a subpoena to WhatsApp by the end of the day, someone is committing malpractice.

Replaced_Texan 10-08-2019 03:54 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525425)
If the House Democrats haven't sent a subpoena to WhatsApp by the end of the day, someone is committing malpractice.

I really hope they do to drive my point home with some of my clients.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 03:55 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525424)
Again, why be out there answering questions about some dumbass conspiracy theory, thus giving it energy?

He should be out there attacking Trump for spending taxpayer dollars to get Ukrainian propaganda for his re-election campaign. If Biden can't make hay with these facts, that is political malpractice.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 04:21 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525424)
But he's already leading in every poll, which makes him the presumptive nominee.

FWIW:

Quote:

New Quinnipiac NATIONAL poll (counts for the November debate)
Warren 29%
Biden 26%
Sanders 16%
Buttigieg 4%
Harris 3%
Yang 3%
Everyone else at or below 2 percent
https://t.co/2skJmUGBSD

ThurgreedMarshall 10-08-2019 04:21 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525427)
He should be out there attacking Trump for spending taxpayer dollars to get Ukrainian propaganda for his re-election campaign. If Biden can't make hay with these facts, that is political malpractice.

Jesus.

This story is dragging Trump down already. And it's because Biden hasn't been out there trying to hammer away. The more he's out there, the more questions he gets about the bullshit underlying Trump's lunacy. And I don't know if you met the American people, but the more questions he gets, the more the conspiracy becomes true. Leave it alone.

TM

sebastian_dangerfield 10-08-2019 04:22 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525414)
You are waaaaaay too deep in the weeds. No one is paying attention to Biden's response except the hardestcore of hardcore political junkies and people who want to believe Biden did something wrong. If I were advising Biden, while I wouldn't be asking the media not to book Giuliani, I would tell him to sit back and let Trump blow everything up without giving the underlying bullshit any air from Biden. No need to be out there having clips of him denying this garbage played again and again. Let Trump continue to talk himself into a deeper hole.

And to be fair--although I still think he has the best chance of beating Trump by the biggest margin--on a personal level, I'm not even that sure about Biden's abilities to do the job anymore. He keeps showing signs that he's too old for this shit.

TM

2. Trump is forgetting how to use the Big Lie. He doesn’t need inside info to create suspicion Biden is corrupt. Hunter’s a train wreck. There are loads of “bad facts” with which to paint Joe and his kid as corrupt, regardless of truth.

The master of Fake News doesn’t even know how to use Fake News. Fool thought he needed real dirt. Now all he’s done is caused voters who might think Biden actedly corruptly in Ukraine to think, “so did Trump.”

Biden should ignore Trump all day, every day.

ThurgreedMarshall 10-08-2019 04:23 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525428)

Sorry. In almost every fucking poll (and crushing everyone in some). But thanks, Less.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ination_polls/

TM

sebastian_dangerfield 10-08-2019 04:29 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525428)

I think there are shy Biden voters like there were shy Trump voters.

Nobody is excited by him. Nobody is eager to express support for a lesser senile candidate.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-08-2019 04:35 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 525426)
I really hope they do to drive my point home with some of my clients.

Give them a copy of Snowden’s new book.

“Speech. You Can Always Deny It or Say a Characterization is Taking Words Out of Context.” That should be an ad for old school phone call service.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-08-2019 04:42 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 525401)
I'm more defensive of arbitration I think because I see it in the international business context, where it gives us a good alternative to the wide range of national systems.

Maybe if we had a form of arbitration to use for consumers that was perceived of as less biased? Why can't courts sponsor arbitration alternatives that are less expensive but still public forums for consumers?

Some courts do have compulsory arbitration and even mediation. Arbs are usually done by boards of ex judges or lawyers.

I think mediation should be compelled in every case, early. Force the parties to examine strengths and weaknesses in detail immediately. Try to kill all cases before the costly discovery and motion practice.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 04:59 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525431)
Sorry. In almost every fucking poll (and crushing everyone in some). But thanks, Less.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ination_polls/

TM

The national polls on that page from the last week are

Warren +3
Biden +12
Warren +1
Warren +3
Warren +6
Biden +11

(eta: Average those numbers, and Biden's still ahead.)

ThurgreedMarshall 10-08-2019 05:09 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525435)
The national polls on that page from the last week are

Warren +3
Biden +12
Warren +1
Warren +3
Warren +6
Biden +11

You really are exhausting.

I can list the swing state polls. I can talk about the fact that he's *crushing* her in some of the national polls and the ones she's leading in are probably within the margin of error. But why?

If Warren is the best candidate to win by the biggest margin possible, great! I think she has a shot at winning the primary. But whether she does or not, Biden has the best chance of beating Trump by the largest margin in the general. And I say that even though I think he's a doddering old man at this point.

I don't really care about this argument anymore. We disagree on strategy as it relates to the Ukraine scandal. There's nothing more to debate. Jesus.

TM

Adder 10-08-2019 05:33 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525424)
But he's already leading in every poll, which makes him the presumptive nominee.

Edited: Whoops. STP. Nothing to see here.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 05:34 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525436)
I don't really care about this argument anymore.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm having a conversation with someone I mostly agree with, and sharing information that seems germane to the conversation. I'm sorry if I gave a different impression.

FWIW, I don't think Biden is crushing her, but I'm also not paying very close attention because I think things are fluid in the medium term. YMMV.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 10-08-2019 06:01 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 525434)
Some courts do have compulsory arbitration and even mediation. Arbs are usually done by boards of ex judges or lawyers.

I think mediation should be compelled in every case, early. Force the parties to examine strengths and weaknesses in detail immediately. Try to kill all cases before the costly discovery and motion practice.

I'm defending a case that maybe has $4M in provable damages, and the Plaintiff's Biglaw firm has billed $1.3M. The defendants are moving to dismiss the billionth amended complaint. The plaintiff is an LLC that is owned by a Fortune 500 company.

I mean, once you pass the $200k mark and you're still in the pleadings stage, you might want to re-evaluate your counsel.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 06:44 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Nice to see the White House counsel pay lip service to the rule of law. Hopefully this Supreme Court still thinks Marbury v. Madison is good law, and we can have the differences between the House and the Executive Branch sorted out in the courts.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-08-2019 06:47 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525438)
FWIW, I don't think Biden is crushing her, but I'm also not paying very close attention because I think things are fluid in the medium term. YMMV.

Just saw this. Looks like he has been flat and she has been making a move, maybe at Kamala Harris's expense:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGYZijwW...pg&name=medium

Hank Chinaski 10-08-2019 07:24 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 525439)
I'm defending a case that maybe has $4M in provable damages, and the Plaintiff's Biglaw firm has billed $1.3M. The defendants are moving to dismiss the billionth amended complaint. The plaintiff is an LLC that is owned by a Fortune 500 company.

I mean, once you pass the $200k mark and you're still in the pleadings stage, you might want to re-evaluate your counsel.

Big Law doesn’t know how to staff and run a limited damages case. I just had a plaintiff case where we estimated dames at $10M. It stared out fairly aggressively fought. All deps that might help etc. both sides. Then a patent marking issues slashed my damages to $2M. We down shifted accordingly. Do we need this or not? The other side Boston Big Law kept sending 5 lawyers to Minneapolis for each hearing or dep.

Then when you get to mediation the guy is all”it’ll cost you each $5M to take this through trial, so you know, settle.” I’m like, dude $250k tops. I don’t know if Big Law doesn’t care or just can’t tailor anything?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-08-2019 07:45 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
I have just read and reread the White House Counsel's letter, and it is, without a doubt, the worst piece of legal writing I have ever read.

I didn't see anything that bad when I was in law school and working for an immigration lawyer and had to read pro se pleadings from people who barely spoke English.

I once had a lawyer client who had literally lost his mind and spend years sending the IRS lengthy handwritten diatribes instead of tax returns, and he wrote better.

I mean, I would expect more in a fourth grade civics class.

That is a whole new level of bad.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-08-2019 10:42 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 525443)
I have just read and reread the White House Counsel's letter, and it is, without a doubt, the worst piece of legal writing I have ever read.

I didn't see anything that bad when I was in law school and working for an immigration lawyer and had to read pro se pleadings from people who barely spoke English.

I once had a lawyer client who had literally lost his mind and spend years sending the IRS lengthy handwritten diatribes instead of tax returns, and he wrote better.

I mean, I would expect more in a fourth grade civics class.

That is a whole new level of bad.

It seems more a political than legal document. If playing to the common voter, it’s about 7 pages and twenty lines too long.

I could not read it. I got a headache. But I will say this: The “Sharpie Signature,” filling a third of a page (as his client likes to sign bills) is tacky and should be banned.

LessinSF 10-09-2019 11:42 AM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 525431)
Sorry. In almost every fucking poll (and crushing everyone in some). But thanks, Less.

TM

We could start a new version of the dead pool among those of us who want to predict SCOTUS results - https://reason.com/2019/10/08/oyez-o...ow-in-session/

LessinAlmaty, Kazakhstan

Did you just call me Coltrane? 10-09-2019 12:09 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 525442)
Big Law doesn’t know how to staff and run a limited damages case. I just had a plaintiff case where we estimated dames at $10M. It stared out fairly aggressively fought. All deps that might help etc. both sides. Then a patent marking issues slashed my damages to $2M. We down shifted accordingly. Do we need this or not? The other side Boston Big Law kept sending 5 lawyers to Minneapolis for each hearing or dep.

Then when you get to mediation the guy is all”it’ll cost you each $5M to take this through trial, so you know, settle.” I’m like, dude $250k tops. I don’t know if Big Law doesn’t care or just can’t tailor anything?

One of the first things I do with a client is a cost/benefit analysis of taking the case through (a) SJ stage, and (b) trial. With an estimated budget.

Even if I could bill out at $7-800/hr, I still don't see how I could generate 1/3 of that in fees before any depositions have been taken. Maybe I'm...honest? I don't know. I bill for the work that I do? Granted, the reason they are on their 12th amended complaint is because no one there seems to know how to draft a complaint to get around the economic loss doctrine.

This same Big Law firm asked the court for costs/fees for being forced to respond to an emergency motion (the motion was to stop the plaintiffs from destroying evidence). They filed a 2-page response and asked for $10k.

Denied. And laughed at.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-09-2019 12:31 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 525444)
It seems more a political than legal document. If playing to the common voter, it’s about 7 pages and twenty lines too long.

I could not read it. I got a headache. But I will say this: The “Sharpie Signature,” filling a third of a page (as his client likes to sign bills) is tacky and should be banned.

In an embarrassing letter, that signature is perhaps the worse thing.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-09-2019 12:34 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGaiU8WU...jpg&name=small

Adder 10-09-2019 12:58 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Abandoning the Kurds seems like it should be getting more outrage than it is getting, particularly from the GOP.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-09-2019 01:03 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 525449)
Abandoning the Kurds seems like it should be getting more outrage than it is getting, particularly from the GOP.

This Administration is not interested in what most people think, so most outrage doesn't seem consequential.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-09-2019 01:30 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 525446)
One of the first things I do with a client is a cost/benefit analysis of taking the case through (a) SJ stage, and (b) trial. With an estimated budget.

Even if I could bill out at $7-800/hr, I still don't see how I could generate 1/3 of that in fees before any depositions have been taken. Maybe I'm...honest? I don't know. I bill for the work that I do? Granted, the reason they are on their 12th amended complaint is because no one there seems to know how to draft a complaint to get around the economic loss doctrine.

This same Big Law firm asked the court for costs/fees for being forced to respond to an emergency motion (the motion was to stop the plaintiffs from destroying evidence). They filed a 2-page response and asked for $10k.

Denied. And laughed at.

This is why I enjoy workouts. You skip right to the end.

Yup, the client's in default. Yup, you can accelerate. Yup, you can confess.

But you can't collect. So let's explore taking your loan out, or stretching it, or getting out of this for a lump sum discount. Otherwise, we're going to burn ungodly sums fucking around in the execution process. And then at the last second, we might just throw them into bankruptcy and some other lawyer can feed off the carcass for a while.

Every case should work this way.

I sued someone a bunch of years ago for a million dollars, plus punitives. Fraudulent business valuation. Opposing counsel offered up all facts on how his clients, despite having assets, were judgment proof. That was a smart move I don't see replicated enough. I had to tell clients, "Look, there's clear liability, but you can't spend on this because collection's impossible." So we did the bare minimum to try to lever a small settlement going forward. Every case should work this way. They should all be vetted in the following order:

1. Collectibility;
2. Likely award size;
3. Probability of winning

I don't think big or even mid-sized or small comm lit firms like to honestly assess that shit because in almost all comm lit, when you factor in annoyance, time spent talking to lawyers, and costs, litigating anything other than huge cases - really huge cases - makes no fucking sense.

And yet you'll see small to mid sized businesses aggressively litigating (deps, motion practice, trial, appeals) over $250k and less all day long. Fucking mindless.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-09-2019 01:37 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 525447)
In an embarrassing letter, that signature is perhaps the worse thing.

I wasn't kidding when I said the letter gave me a headache. It's impossible to follow. Reads like a fourth year associate's first draft of an appeal of a court's rejection of an equity or public policy argument.

Should have been signed with a giant smiley face.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-09-2019 01:39 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 525449)
Abandoning the Kurds seems like it should be getting more outrage than it is getting, particularly from the GOP.

The whole thing is so blatant, and will so obvious trigger broader conflict, that I suspect Trump wants a war to distract people.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-09-2019 01:43 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 525452)
I wasn't kidding when I said the letter gave me a headache. It's impossible to follow. Reads like a fourth year associate's first draft of an appeal of a court's rejection of an equity or public policy argument.

Should have been signed with a giant smiley face.

https://www.theonion.com/law-school-...m_content=Main


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