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Diane_Keaton 02-21-2006 12:36 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
If we let the ones who are already in Europe live, it's not really quite genocide. I mean, at a minimum, for genocide we'd have to round up everyone here and in Europe and send them back before nuking.
Um...the intent to kill, in whole or in part, a national or religious group is genocide as per Geneva Convention. But thanks for playing.

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It's more like when a castle didn't give in to a siege -- when the besiegers finally got in, frequently they'd kill everyone inside, to set an example. But they weren't obliterating e.g. the entire families of all the people in there, just everyone at the location in question. It's a geographic thing, not a racial/familial thing.
Right. Sure, it's um, like that castle thing.

Quote:

How many planes do we have capable of dropping really big bombs? I would think enough to pretty much obliterate most of the population centers within a couple days, which would leave minimal time for escape.
Genocidal fuck.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 12:41 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
ummm..... I'm afraid i have to disagree with your plans here. I eat hummus and shwarma at least a couple of times a week. i don't want some white bread american version.
The people who make that for you live here, so they won't die.

There might be a period of mourning for any family members, but maybe you could go on vacation that week or something.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 12:43 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Um...the intent to kill, in whole or in part, a national or religious group is genocide as per Geneva Convention. But thanks for playing.
They are terrorists or enemy combatants or whatever. The Geneva Convention doesn't apply. Haven't you been paying attention to anything? In any event, we only are getting the ones actually resident in the nation. Expats, like those who make Hank's food, are safe.

Hank Chinaski 02-21-2006 12:54 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
The people who make that for you live here, so they won't die.

There might be a period of mourning for any family members, but maybe you could go on vacation that week or something.
Maybe the food will even get better!!!!? I bet without that whole war thing we'd not have so many Pho kitchens!!!!

Gattigap 02-21-2006 12:55 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield


Could you imagine how different things would be if we had bombs as strong as nukes, but delivering none of the long term fallout?
This sounds like an argument for neutron bombs. I can't really remember the science, though. There must be some reason that we invest so heavily in nukes and not neutrons -- other than our base enjoyment of blowing the shit out of everything.

Hank Chinaski 02-21-2006 12:57 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
They are terrorists or enemy combatants or whatever. The Geneva Convention doesn't apply. Haven't you been paying attention to anything? In any event, we only are getting the ones actually resident in the nation. Expats, like those who make Hank's food, are safe.
2.

( killing terrorists in a car in a foreign country with a predator launched missile) + (ok to wiretap if a minimum % chance terrorists might be on the line) = (we can bomb a whole country is we can show a certain % are terrorists)

Sidd Finch 02-21-2006 01:24 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
If we let the ones who are already in Europe live, it's not really quite genocide. I mean, at a minimum, for genocide we'd have to round up everyone here and in Europe and send them back before nuking.

Right. And Hitler didn't attempt or commit genocide because he didn't round up the Jews in the US.

Sexual Harassment Panda 02-21-2006 01:28 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Right. And Hitler didn't attempt or commit genocide because he didn't round up the Jews in the US.
I've always heard it referred to as a holocaust. Is a holocaust a lesser included offense to genocide?

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:32 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Right. And Hitler didn't attempt or commit genocide because he didn't round up the Jews in the US.
Pfft. It's not the same thing. He rounded them up in his country AND outside of his country. We are clearly not rounding them up in our country -- we aren't even putting them in camps like with the Japanese in WWII -- we are just getting rid of the bulk of populations in entire countries. I mean, shit, I think there will be some US casualties. Collateral damage.

Hank, I thought pho was Vietnamese?

Sidd Finch 02-21-2006 01:34 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Pfft. It's not the same thing. He rounded them up in his country AND outside of his country. We are clearly not rounding them up in our country -- we aren't even putting them in camps like with the Japanese in WWII -- we are just getting rid of the bulk of populations in entire countries. I mean, shit, I think there will be some US casualties. Collateral damage.

Hank, I thought pho was Vietnamese?
Right. And the Japanese only slaughtered or made slaves of Koreans outside of Japan. It wasn't genocide, it was a PARTY!

Hank Chinaski 02-21-2006 01:36 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb

Hank, I thought pho was Vietnamese?
it is. and we wouldn't have so much of it here if we hadn't had a war. so if we have a big mid east war maybe we'll have kibbe parlors sprouting up!!

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:37 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Right. And the Japanese only slaughtered or made slaves of Koreans outside of Japan. It wasn't genocide, it was a PARTY!
It was mean, but it wasn't genocide.

Not all horrible horrific mass killings are genocide, and calling them that weakens your argument and obscures real genocides.

You are doing to "genocide" what Alanis did to "ironic." Shame on you.

Sidd Finch 02-21-2006 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Your fight was wheter Ann Coultour's hate-speech was worse than Mikey's "documentaries." I can't defend her explitives. But that is one ignorant person making one ignorant statement that everyone knows is opinion.
You're right. And after all, only "a few" Repubs listen to her (or worship her).

Hank Chinaski 02-21-2006 01:39 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Right. And the Japanese only slaughtered or made slaves of Koreans outside of Japan. It wasn't genocide, it was a PARTY!
I don't think there were (or are) many Koreans in Japan. They don't like each other mostly.

Sidd Finch 02-21-2006 01:41 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It was mean, but it wasn't genocide.

Not all horrible horrific mass killings are genocide, and calling them that weakens your argument and obscures real genocides.

You are doing to "genocide" what Alanis did to "ironic." Shame on you.

My gosh, you're right. Me and the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals just don't have the slightest idea of what "genocide" means.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:41 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
it is. and we wouldn't have so much of it here if we hadn't had a war. so if we have a big mid east war maybe we'll have kibbe parlors sprouting up!!
We were very inefficient with the Vietnamese thing. Christ, you people suck at this. In Vietnam, we were selectively killing based on actual political affiliations within Vietnam. If it were like my plan (the "Fringe Plan"), we would have bombed the hell out of all cities in Vietnam.

But, our technology was not so good back then and what with all the jungle etc., we might have had trouble locating population centers. In the bleaker desert landscape, habitation is more obvious. And, we have satellite pictures, and heat-sensing technologies and stuff like that. And our planes (used for bombing) have much greater ranges. In order to bomb Vietnam in that way, we probably would have had to bring in ALL our aircraft on aircraft carriers, which are hard to miss on bleak landscapes like the ocean.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:42 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
My gosh, you're right. Me and the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals just don't have the slightest idea of what "genocide" means.
I am glad you see the error of your ways. I will try to set up a meeting between you and Alanis to get her all straightened out.

Sexual Harassment Panda 02-21-2006 01:42 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It was mean, but it wasn't genocide.

Not all horrible horrific mass killings are genocide, and calling them that weakens your argument and obscures real genocides.

You are doing to "genocide" what Alanis did to "ironic." Shame on you.
I'm confused. I guess the Turks v. Armenians would be genocide, but what about the Romans and the Christians? Genocide, or just an ass-kickin' party?

Hank Chinaski 02-21-2006 01:43 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
We were very inefficient with the Vietnamese thing. Christ, you people suck at this. In Vietnam, we were selectively killing based on actual political affiliations within Vietnam. If it were like my plan (the "Fringe Plan"), we would have bombed the hell out of all cities in Vietnam.

But, our technology was not so good back then and what with all the jungle etc., we might have had trouble locating population centers. In the bleaker desert landscape, habitation is more obvious. And, we have satellite pictures, and heat-sensing technologies and stuff like that. And our planes (used for bombing) have much greater ranges. In order to bomb Vietnam in that way, we probably would have had to bring in ALL our aircraft on aircraft carriers, which are hard to miss on bleak landscapes like the ocean.
are you a body count quota? I'm looking at this solely from a "how many good new type restaurants" do we get if we bomb a particular group of people. In about another hour I think you'll see I'm looking at this from the more reasoned view.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:45 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
are you a body count quota? I'm looking at this solely from a "how many good new type restaurants" do we get if we bomb a particular group of people. In about another hour I think you'll see I'm looking at this from the more reasoned view.
I have to have lunch early. Some asshole scheduled a meeting that starts at noon:30.

To get good new restaurants, we'd have to give prior warning to allow emigration. But, if we give prior warning, the bad people can emigrate too.

What's more important, food or national security?

Hank Chinaski 02-21-2006 01:45 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
My gosh, you're right. Me and the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals just don't have the slightest idea of what "genocide" means.
I think the Japanese wanted to repopulate Korea, just with people with roots in Japan. So they didn't really have a problem with people living in Korea, they just wanted creative control. Fringey's plan is different- it doesn't really allot for anyone living there for the next thousand years of so.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:51 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I'm confused. I guess the Turks v. Armenians would be genocide, but what about the Romans and the Christians? Genocide, or just an ass-kickin' party?
Well, I am not a European history buff, but I think that the Romans basically controlled all of the known world. If they were trying to obliterate all Christians in the territory they controlled, which was all of the known world, then it seems like it would be genocide. If there were known areas that were not controlled by the Romans, and the Romans were aware of large Christian populations in those areas, and the Romans weren't trying to obliterate the Christians in areas outside of their control, then not genocide. Unless they planned to conquer all unknown territories and obliterate the Christians there too. Then it's planned genocide.

I think perhaps we are confusing "genocide" with "ethnic cleansing," and, even worse, thinking that one of those two terms applies to the Fringe Plan. The Japanese killing all Koreans in Japan, but letting them continue to exist/procreate in Korea (which they controlled?), seems more like an ethnic cleansing thing -- Koreans outside of Japan OK, but no Koreans in Japan. Hitler's plan was a genocide/holocaust because he seemed to want to conquer the world, and kill all Jews in the areas he controlled, which, if all went according to plan, would mean no Jews anywhere.

Under the Fringe Plan, Middle Easterners in the US and the west, OK; anyone currently in the Middle East, not OK.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:55 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I think the Japanese wanted to repopulate Korea, just with people with roots in Japan. So they didn't really have a problem with people living in Korea, they just wanted creative control. Fringey's plan is different- it doesn't really allot for anyone living there for the next thousand years of so.
I'm not nuking it. Conventional bombing of population centers. And possible major infrastructure that is outside of population centers. We can do food drops for a while, or maybe FEMA will put the survivors up in hotels for a few months until the decimated populations get back on their feet/relocate.

Hank Chinaski 02-21-2006 01:56 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Well, I am not a European history buff, but I think that the Romans basically controlled all of the known world. If they were trying to obliterate all Christians in the territory they controlled, which was all of the known world, then it seems like it would be genocide. If there were known areas that were not controlled by the Romans, and the Romans were aware of large Christian populations in those areas, and the Romans weren't trying to obliterate the Christians in areas outside of their control, then not genocide. Unless they planned to conquer all unknown territories and obliterate the Christians there too. Then it's planned genocide.

I think perhaps we are confusing "genocide" with "ethnic cleansing," and, even worse, thinking that one of those two terms applies to the Fringe Plan. The Japanese killing all Koreans in Japan, but letting them continue to exist/procreate in Korea (which they controlled?), seems more like an ethnic cleansing thing -- Koreans outside of Japan OK, but no Koreans in Japan. Hitler's plan was a genocide/holocaust because he seemed to want to conquer the world, and kill all Jews in the areas he controlled, which, if all went according to plan, would mean no Jews anywhere.

Under the Fringe Plan, Middle Easterners in the US and the west, OK; anyone currently in the Middle East, not OK.
after WWII we started having a lot more italian restaurants, but not so much German or Japanese. Japanese and korean restaurants didn't catch on until the 80s.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 01:58 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
after WWII we started having a lot more italian restaurants, but not so much German or Japanese. Japanese and korean restaurants didn't catch on until the 80s.
Your restaurant thing may have to do with stuff other than wars. Maybe you need to reexamine your data?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 02-21-2006 02:24 PM

Three steps back, two steps forward
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Maybe he finally got the pen I mailed them.
Curiousity: Is there anything that requires the president to spend earmarked money as directed in legislative history? I'm not talking about actual statutory provisions for the research of butterflies at mississippi state university. But if there's just a long leg. history saying build a bridge to nowhere, what legally prevents the president from telling DOT spend the money on any old highway, not that bridge? And I'm not asking whether it would be politically savvy.

taxwonk 02-21-2006 03:26 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
The people who make that for you live here, so they won't die.

There might be a period of mourning for any family members, but maybe you could go on vacation that week or something.
Or you could eat gyros that week. There is quite a lot of similarity between the shawarma and gyros. I guess for hummus you'll have to go Tuscan and have some cannellini paste.

taxwonk 02-21-2006 03:28 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I've always heard it referred to as a holocaust. Is a holocaust a lesser included offense to genocide?
Sort of. It's only a Holocaust if you burn them in ovens.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 03:32 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Or you could eat gyros that week. There is quite a lot of similarity between the shawarma and gyros. I guess for hummus you'll have to go Tuscan and have some cannellini paste.
WHAT? Shawerma is chicken. Gyros is like beef and pork or something. Shawerma would obviously never involve pork.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 03:33 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Sort of. It's only a Holocaust if you burn them in ovens.
I would have thought that holocaust was a subset of genocide?

taxwonk 02-21-2006 03:35 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
WHAT? Shawerma is chicken. Gyros is like beef and pork or something. Shawerma would obviously never involve pork.
Shawarma can also be beef or lamb. And if it's prepared in the traditional way, by stacking slices of meat and onion that have been seasoned on an upright spit and roasting them, slicing off the outer edges as they cook, it is almost the same thing as gyros, which is beef or beef and lamb. No pork.

taxwonk 02-21-2006 03:37 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I would have thought that holocaust was a subset of genocide?
It is a subset, but the means are as important as the end.

LessinSF 02-21-2006 03:45 PM

A Few Good Men...albeit none of them are muslim
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
With the amount of Johnny Walker you sucked up last night, I am surprized to see you posting before noon. I bet Less won't be conscious until late afternoon.
You are correct, sir, but I did then go see Dave Chappelle, so the day was not a total loss.

SlaveNoMore 02-21-2006 03:56 PM

A Few Good Men...albeit none of them are muslim
 
Quote:

LessinSF
You are correct, sir, but I did then go see Dave Chappelle, so the day was not a total loss.
BTW, I have the Gilbert Gottfried tickets in hand.

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 04:19 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Shawarma can also be beef or lamb. And if it's prepared in the traditional way, by stacking slices of meat and onion that have been seasoned on an upright spit and roasting them, slicing off the outer edges as they cook, it is almost the same thing as gyros, which is beef or beef and lamb. No pork.
Whoops. I eat all the meat, so I don't pay attention to what is and isn't in things as much.

taxwonk 02-21-2006 05:23 PM

A Few Good Noshes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Whoops. I eat all the meat, so I don't pay attention to what is and isn't in things as much.
No big. I just take my sammiches very seriously, as you know.

original Hank@judged.com 02-21-2006 06:22 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Whoops. I eat all the meat, so I don't pay attention to what is and isn't in things as much.
does your catonese all-you-can-eat buffett serve cat and/or do you know?

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 06:40 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by original Hank@judged.com
does your catonese all-you-can-eat buffett serve cat and/or do you know?
I have not eaten meat that is not easily identified at any all-you-can-eat buffet in at least a year.

original Hank@judged.com 02-21-2006 06:44 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I have not eaten meat that is not easily identified at any all-you-can-eat buffet in at least a year.
how about any gloryholes?

ltl/fb 02-21-2006 06:45 PM

A Few Good Men
 
Quote:

Originally posted by original Hank@judged.com
how about any gloryholes?
I would be able to identify cat meat in that context. I believe it would have spines. And be shaped quite differently from human meat.


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