Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

A colleague won “Trial Lawyer of the Year” from Public Justice for her work on a public nuisance lawsuit to get paint manufacturers to pay for abatement of lead paint in a lawsuit that went on for 10 years. But as RT said, public health folks have known of the neurological effects of environmental lead for a long time; connecting sub-par intellectual function with violence has also been known, but difficult to deal with from a policy perspective for a while. Personally I feel about this the way I felt when I read Freakanomics re: the crime drop due to the legalization of pregnancy termination because of an unborn generation of underclass, which is to say, queasy about the implications but not well-positioned to dispute the reasoning.

I couldn't stand Freakanomics. It was the old economists' line, "we can't really deal with this variable so we'll just assume it away... and then reach conclusions that we hold up as valid without acknowledging that they rest on a series of convenient assumptions."

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The article suggests that leaded gasoline was much more of a problem than lead paint. FWIW.

Atticus, get your own people to summarize the article for you. This is my corner, ho.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Atticus, get your own people to summarize the article for you. This is my corner, ho.

and suddenly you trust Ty's take on what his readings mean?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I was finishing my masters in public health when the article came out two years ago. (Note: I am a health policy and administration concentrate, not an epidemiologist or community health person. I think it goes without saying that I am not a biostatistician.) And it was an exhibit in one of my ethics classes (the question was about lead abatement in Baltimore and a public health experiment with dubious attention to ethical implications). The Mother Jones article was brand new and just out to the general public, but it's a theory that's been floating around public health circles for decades. At the time, the two professors I talked to about it seemed pretty interested, but it wasn't in their area of research. I think that there's some research going on at Hopkins and Harvard on the causation/correlation issue. I think it'd be much too short sighted to say that lead had no influence, but yes, it is more complicated.

Also, the lead abatement study cited in the article above sort of shows why it's really, really hard to research these things.

But so is pretty much everything in public health.

translation: once we get to where we can study populations on a galactic scale we can get to answer as the pool is then large enough.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The article suggests that leaded gasoline was much more of a problem than lead paint. FWIW.

That’s what the paint industry said. Oh my God, they’ve gotten to Mother Jones.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

A colleague won “Trial Lawyer of the Year” from Public Justice for her work on a public nuisance lawsuit to get paint manufacturers to pay for abatement of lead paint in a lawsuit that went on for 10 years. But as RT said, public health folks have known of the neurological effects of environmental lead for a long time; connecting sub-par intellectual function with violence has also been known, but difficult to deal with from a policy perspective for a while. Personally I feel about this the way I felt when I read Freakanomics re: the crime drop due to the legalization of pregnancy termination because of an unborn generation of underclass, which is to say, queasy about the implications but not well-positioned to dispute the reasoning.

What makes you queasy about, "reduce lead exposure?"

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Adder

What makes you queasy about, "reduce lead exposure?"

I grew up in the relevant period. Who knows what potential I’ve lost? {Cue Hank joke}

Neurological public health has an interesting set of special implications. According to one theory, we might be able to reduce or eliminate the incidence of schizophrenia by banning cats. Will we? We can better optimize for cognitive potential by banning alcohol. Will we? The idea of suboptimal is a very tricky business, policy-wise.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I grew up in the relevant period. Who knows what potential I’ve lost? {Cue Hank joke}

Neurological public health has an interesting set of special implications. According to one theory, we might be able to reduce or eliminate the incidence of schizophrenia by banning cats. Will we? We can better optimize for cognitive potential by banning alcohol. Will we? The idea of suboptimal is a very tricky business, policy-wise.

The difference between lead and your examples is we don't, and never did, need lead.

Okay, so could argue that's true of cats, but no one clung to lead because of they felt warm feelings about it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

The difference between lead and your examples is we don't, and never did, need lead.

Okay, so could argue that's true of cats, but no one clung to lead because of they felt warm feelings about it.

atti, can we come up with legit rules that would ban adder from posting? I can surely give arguments as to why it would help.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

atti, can we come up with legit rules that would ban adder from posting? I can surely give arguments as to why it would help.

Ty is willing to do public demonstration on how harmless my posts are, as long as he gets a 6 month hiatus to recover from direct exposure to their toxicity, ala Mr Midgely.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Adder

The difference between lead and your examples is we don't, and never did, need lead.

Do you mean “in gasoline,” or “at all”? Because I’m pretty confident that the broader statement is untrue.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Atticus, get your own people to summarize the article for you. This is my corner, ho.

Excuse me. I came here looking for the religion board, but seem to have stumbled on the public health study group. Where do I go to make a post on monophysites and Islam?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

A colleague won “Trial Lawyer of the Year” from Public Justice for her work on a public nuisance lawsuit to get paint manufacturers to pay for abatement of lead paint in a lawsuit that went on for 10 years. But as RT said, public health folks have known of the neurological effects of environmental lead for a long time; connecting sub-par intellectual function with violence has also been known, but difficult to deal with from a policy perspective for a while. Personally I feel about this the way I felt when I read Freakanomics re: the crime drop due to the legalization of pregnancy termination because of an unborn generation of underclass, which is to say, queasy about the implications but not well-positioned to dispute the reasoning.

Correlation in Freakanomics is loose--like, maybe we should look at things differently. This seems way, way stronger.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I grew up in the relevant period. Who knows what potential I’ve lost? {Cue Hank joke}

Neurological public health has an interesting set of special implications. According to one theory, we might be able to reduce or eliminate the incidence of schizophrenia by banning cats. Will we? We can better optimize for cognitive potential by banning alcohol. Will we? The idea of suboptimal is a very tricky business, policy-wise.

Yo, what the fuck are you talking about?

Seems to me people know lead. They've lived with it. They can see it and touch it without immediate harm, so they don't think of it as a poison that they take in by breathing the fucking air. It's a harder case to make to the public than, "That nuclear reactor over there is leaking." So it's easier for the people who should be taking steps to clean it up to ignore.

And the fact that the harm is a drop in a few IQ points and/or a possible increase in a tendency towards violence 20 years down the road when anyone can point to a dozen other things to cloud the issue doesn't help.

But, shit. If we're constantly talking about how we've fallen behind the rest of the developed world in education, etc., you would think this would be the easiest fix to make. Drop 20 or 40 billion on this problem. Create a ton of jobs in the abatement space. And actually improve ourselves. Too bad there're no votes or recognition for a long term approach in government, business, education--fuck, anything--in this country.

TM

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Rand Paul's assessment of disability claim abuse is off in terms of degree (it's not half of SS claimants). But the phenomenon he's describing is very real. Having seen this close up, and having known people with serious disability claims who had to fight to get and keep them because the system is clogged with fraudulent claims for dubious maladies (bipolar, fibromyalgia, anxiety disorder, etc.), it's pretty cool someone finally had the balls to touch this third rail issue: http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/14/politi...ul-disability/

In 2008-2010, when the safety net was needed, suddenly claims were all rubber stamped by the govt. Previous scrutiny was abandoned. Then in 2011, when the SS disability program was criticized for having been lenient, and acting as a stealth welfare/unemployment avoidance device, claims became difficult again. The problem, however, is those rubber stamped claimants didn't just go away. Once on SS disability usually means permanently on it.

I've seen guys with serious heart ailments held up in the claims process, simply because the backlog is so enormous. While people claiming depression and anxiety and amorphous "general pain disorder" have gotten benefits due to luck of timing. There ought to be an across the board audit and every claimant asserting anxiety or mild bipolar disorder (another favorite) be removed from the rolls. Docs backing up these dubious anxiety and bipolar claims ought to be subject to investigation by state medical boards. (It's always the same guys, giving these same diagnoses, with near identical language in each of their records.)

Of course, his comment appearing mean to perceived down on their luck sorts, Paul is being attacked for it.

End rant here.

Fuck him and fuck you.