Pepper sprayed for public safety.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

End of life care. There's huge waste in keeping elderly terminal patients alive for no good reason. Require family members to co-pay for any such efforts provided to anyone with a terminal illness over 80.

We are all terminally ill.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

We are all terminally ill.

I have no objection to numerous exceptions lowering the age from 80. Nickelback fans being a good start. Then moving on to people who think Obama is a socialist, or that 9/11 was an inside job, etc. And creationists (I'm still wondering why these people are among the sorts howling most loudly about "death panels"... You'd think these broods would be in a hurry to grab that "heavenly reward").

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

How about gun control?

If only those school children had been armed and able to fight back.

There is no gun control that would fix this issue. The only simple cure would be total prohibition, or a ban on the manufacture of guns going forward, and even those wouldn't deter a madman like this.

ETA: I have now, officially, lost all faith in humanity. Do not read any inside news feeds on this story. This thing is more disturbing than that piece on the guy who let his child freeze to death a few years back. Jesus Fucking Christ...

[ferrets_bueller]

This is my first post on this Board;I usually post about trivial stuff from my position as an old guy who remembers when associates were calling the economic shots at law firms. Seems like a long time ago. In any event:

Congratulations to the NRA for another stirring exercise of Second Amendment rights and privileges.

I herewith offer a modest proposal.

The National Well Regulated Militia Act of 2012

Whereas, the Second Amendment to the Constitution states that AA well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.@ and

Whereas, Americans justly consider their Second Amendment rights to be essential to the defense of liberty and freedom, and

Whereas, since the attack on the United States on September 11, 2001, the Armed Forces of the United States, having been sorely tested and, despite a valiant effort by our men and women at arms, are in need of relief, and

Whereas, armed individuals, who may or may not be citizens of the United States, have committed acts in this nation which indicate the need for training and discipline in the use of weaponry, and

Whereas, individual legislation by the several states has not been effective to either prevent the illegal use of weaponry or to establish a well regulated militia, nor is it possible for any state to do so, given the ease of travel and transportation between the several states, and

Whereas, the Supreme Court has determined in District of Columbia v. Heller that individuals are permitted to own weapons without regard to local or state law to the contrary,

Now therefore, the following statute shall be enacted by the Congress of the United States.

Section 1. The National Well Regulated Militia Act.

This act shall be known as the National Well Regulated Militia Act.

Section 2. Establishment of the National Militia.

(A) There is hereby created a National Militia.

(B) The National Militia shall report to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the Armed Forces of the United States (hereafter, AChairman@).

(C) The Chairman may, in his discretion, assign such other individuals of the Armed Forces of the United States as the Chairman deems necessary to the National Militia to supervise the National Militia .



Section 3. Membership in the National Militia.

(A) All persons within the United States owning or possessing any object falling within the definition of the term Aarms@ within the meaning of the Second Amendment to the Constitution are hereby, without further action on the part of any individual, members of the National Militia.

(B) All members of the National Militia shall, within 90 days of the enactment of this statute, report to the United States Post Office nearest their place of residence to enroll their names in the rolls of the National Militia.

(C) All persons who are not currently members of the National Militia pursuant to subsection (A) of this section, but who become members of the National Militia by virtue of new ownership or possession of Aarms@ shall report to the Post Office nearest their place of residence and enroll their names in the rolls of the National Militia within 3 days of becoming a member.

(D) Any member of the National Militia who transfers ownership or possession of arms may do so only to a member of the National Militia who has been previously enrolled pursuant to subsection (B).

(E) Any member of the National Militia who ceases to be a member by virtue of cessation of ownership or control of Aarms@ shall immediately inform the Chairman or the Chairman=s designee.

(F) Each member of the National Militia shall report for training, with all Aarms@ within their ownership or control, to the military facility designated for that member of the national Militia by the Chairman at a time and place determined by the Chairman.

Section 4. Service in the National Militia.

(A) All members of the National Militia shall serve two years active duty service at the discretion of the Chairman.

(B) Members of the National Militia who are concurrently serving in the Armed Forces of the United States, although required to register as members of the National Militia, are exempt from the service described in subsection (A) of this section.

(C) members of the National Militia who have served two years or more on active duty in the Armed Forces of the United States, although required to register as members of the National Militia, are exempt from the service described in subsection (A) of this section.



(D) All members of the National Militia shall be solely responsible for the Aarms@ owned or possessed by the respective members. Such arms must be secured, to the satisfaction of the Chairman, so as to absolutely prohibit the use of the arms by any person who has not complied with the provisions of Section 3 of this statute.

Section 5. Penalties.

(A) Failure by any member of the National Militia to comply with any registration or transfer of ownership provisions of Section 3 , or the service provisions of Section 4, shall be cause for immediate confiscation of Aarms@ in possession of the member, and such member shall be incarcerated for 10 years or until compliance is effected.

(B) Failure by any member of the National Militia to comply with the provisions of section 4(D) concerning securing arms in their ownership or possession shall be incarcerated for 10 years.

(C) Any member of the National Militia who fails to secure arms in their possession pursuant to section 4(D) shall be civilly liable to any person injured by use of the arms. The United States District Courts shall have exclusive jurisdiction over any civil lawsuit initiated pursuant to this subsection.

(D) The Bankruptcy Code is hereby amended to add a new section, to wit Section 523(a)(20) of the Bankruptcy Code, to exclude from discharge Aany debt incurred pursuant to a judgment under subsection 5 (C) of the Well Regulated Militia Act.@


Section 6. Militia Uniform.

(A) While on private residential property, National Militia members need not wear their militia uniforms when bearing arms.

(B) When in public, or on commercial property, members of the National Militia shall wear their militia uniforms when bearing arms.

(C) National Militia uniforms must include a helmet which emits an oscillating strobe light so that militia members may easily recognize one another at a distance.The Chairman shall waive this provision if the member is engaged in combat or training, or other active duty assignment.


Section 7. Authority to Enact Regulations.

The Second Amendment to the Constitution contemplates a Awell regulated militia@. The Chairman shall have the power to approve such regulations, consistent with this statute, as shall be appropriate to implement the provisions herein.

Discuss.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

Discuss. [/FONT][/SIZE]

If we're going to discuss legislation that will not pass, why not just talk about replacing the Second Amendment?

New Amendment:

Clause 1: The Second Amendment is hereby repealed.

Clause 2: It shall be a right of the people to possess and use firearms for the defense of self and others and for sport.

Clause 3: The right of the people reflected in Clause 2 shall be subject to such reasonable regulation, including as the the type and function of such arms, as proscribed by Congress or by the laws of the States.

Clause 4: Congress shall create a registry of all firearms in which the serial number and other identifying information of such arms and the ownership thereof are recorded. Any arms not so registered shall be subject to confiscation by the Executive without compensation.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There is no gun control that would fix this issue. The only simple cure would be total prohibition, or a ban on the manufacture of guns going forward, and even those wouldn't deter a madman like this.

ETA: I have now, officially, lost all faith in humanity. Do not read any inside news feeds on this story. This thing is more disturbing than that piece on the guy who let his child freeze to death a few years back. Jesus Fucking Christ...

Once upon a time, I thought this was an urban-rural issue where silly urbanites imposed their view of the world on responsible rural gun owners.

But an awful lot of automatic weapons with no sensible purpose have been used to kill people since then. Just a blanket ban on all automatic weapons of any sort seems an obvious need.

But if we can also get the NRA listed as a terrorist organization in the meantime, I think they meet a lot more of the standards for listing than the average Islamic charity that gets stuck on.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Once upon a time, I thought this was an urban-rural issue where silly urbanites imposed their view of the world on responsible rural gun owners.

But an awful lot of automatic weapons with no sensible purpose have been used to kill people since then. Just a blanket ban on all automatic weapons of any sort seems an obvious need.

But if we can also get the NRA listed as a terrorist organization in the meantime, I think they meet a lot more of the standards for listing than the average Islamic charity that gets stuck on.

where have you seen anything about what guns he had? I see 2 handguns, but the reports seem so scattered as to not be reliable yet.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Rice is "frustrated hot." She looks so pissed (for good reason). Whoever's sleeping with her is having to put up with hearing about the motherlode of work-complaint bitching... but getting laid more than 99.9% of married men.

ETA: She just dropped out of the running. Disregard. Somebody's jerking off, and giving a shitload of back massages.

This is the most enlightening post about current events I have read in weeks.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There is no gun control that would fix this issue. The only simple cure would be total prohibition, or a ban on the manufacture of guns going forward, and even those wouldn't deter a madman like this.

This is bullshit. Will gun control prevent killings like this? No. But if someone who is pissed off and crazy can walk to his closet and pull out automatic weapons, that makes these things much more likely than they should be.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

This is bullshit. Will gun control prevent killings like this? No. But if someone who is pissed off and crazy can walk to his closet and pull out automatic weapons, that makes these things much more likely than they should be.

from Fox it wasn't automatic weapons:

An official with knowledge of the situation said the shooter was armed with a .223-caliber rifle. Four weapons in total were recovered from the scene. The motive is not yet known.

Police are also questioning another person in connection with the shooting. Witnesses told the Connecticut Post that a handcuffed man, dressed in camouflage, was led out of a nearby woods by officers. The individual is Lanza's younger brother, according to the Associated Press.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

where have you seen anything about what guns he had? I see 2 handguns, but the reports seem so scattered as to not be reliable yet.

I thought that this information was interesting. I didn't realize how much the population was armed.

I've worked on a few policies for trying to stop something like this, especially on the sharing mental health information side of things, and I've just come to the conclusion it's not really possible. If someone really wants to do something like this, it's pretty hard to stop them.

That said, two things come to mind. First, mental health. I have had occasion to ok the disclosure of health information in order to alert law enforcment of a relatively credible threat that came out of a mental health facility. I'm just glad my guy made it into a facility. One hopes that with expanded health coverage in the next few years, more people will be able to seek out the mental health services that they need, and PCPs will be able to refer out.

Second, strict liability on gun owners. I was thinking about this yesterday when I read an article about a four year old in Houston who managed to shoot himself. Parents are probably horrified, but whoever owns that gun should also be liable. I don't care if the gun hurt someone by accident or self-defense or you shoot yourself in the groin when you put a gun in your waistband or whatever. Guns are inhernetly dangerous, and if someone gets hurt by one you own, you (or your estate) have to pay actual damages plus a gun punative. (I'd love for this to include cops.)

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

from Fox it wasn't automatic weapons:

An official with knowledge of the situation said the shooter was armed with a .223-caliber rifle. Four weapons in total were recovered from the scene. The motive is not yet known.

Police are also questioning another person in connection with the shooting. Witnesses told the Connecticut Post that a handcuffed man, dressed in camouflage, was led out of a nearby woods by officers. The individual is Lanza's younger brother, according to the Associated Press.

I saw other sources describe that rifle as an assault rifle and also say he had two hand guns as well.

ETA: And the NY Post said the deceased shooter was the younger brother and the older brother was dead in New Jersey.

In summary, I don't think we know much at the moment and we will have to wait for it to get sorted out.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Second, strict liability on gun owners. I was thinking about this yesterday when I read an article about a four year old in Houston who managed to shoot himself. Parents are probably horrified, but whoever owns that gun should also be liable. I don't care if the gun hurt someone by accident or self-defense or you shoot yourself in the groin when you put a gun in your waistband or whatever. Guns are inhernetly dangerous, and if someone gets hurt by one you own, you (or your estate) have to pay actual damages plus a gun punative. (I'd love for this to include cops.)

We need a more robust system of gun ownership registration and title tracking first/too.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There is no gun control that would fix this issue. The only simple cure would be total prohibition, or a ban on the manufacture of guns going forward, and even those wouldn't deter a madman like this.

This is bullshit. Ban handguns and semi-automatic weapons as a start. It's a lot harder to fight it out with police and take out dozens of people with a hunting rifle.

TM

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

End of life care. There's huge waste in keeping elderly terminal patients alive for no good reason. Require family members to co-pay for any such efforts provided to anyone with a terminal illness over 80.

Cut back Part D. Let the GOP tie itself in pretzels fighting on that issue.

Cutting back Part D is the equivalent of a death sentence for a lot of people. I want to hunt you down and kill you for even suggesting it, and you're not even a member of Congress.