I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Yes, you're getting it now.

But you're not.

Even a cursory look at the history of debates on "technological unemployment" shows most authorities holding mixed views. It's only in the last 150 years where economists' views conveniently start dovetailing with those of industrialists, who obviously profit from and deflect criticism with the academic consensus, "Technology always employs more than it displaces!"

The theory that severely disruptive technology leads to more jobs should be modified to "Disruptive technological revolutions eventually- after a long period of time during which new jobs develop as a result of them - appear to create more jobs than they initially displace. Most of the initially displaced, however, do not receive these new jobs. In many cases, economies only eclipse initial jobs lost with new jobs gained decades, or perhaps a generation, after the introduction of the disruptive technology." That describes the phenomenon in total, as it should be explained.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

For Sebby.

He's been a man of his word. Between this and the feds declaring they will use no more private prisons, I'll happily concede to TM that I was wrong, and I have egg on my face. Obama has been beyond exemplary on this issue, and for this alone he should be ranked among the best Presidents we've had.

This issue is That Big. If we're the kind of people who'd jail our own citizens so cruelly, and let the most vile of predatory industrialists and financiers profit from it, the rest of everything about which we argue is immaterial... A country with that kind of rot in its core should collapse for the better of humanity.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It's only in the last 150 years where economists' views conveniently start dovetailing with those of industrialists,

Yikes. You're citing the state of knowledge of 150 years ago as superior to today's? After 150 years of the most rapid technological change in human history? Okay.

And you continue to argue against a straw man. I'm not claiming that technology instantly makes new jobs. I'm saying that your view - that technology has rendered large groups of people useless - is wrong. This is primarily because people find things to do rather than remain idle.

Which is why the problem is stagnant or declining wages - because some of those things aren't a valuable as what people were doing - rather than mass unemployment.

The theory that severely disruptive technology leads to more jobs should be modified to "Disruptive technological revolutions eventually- after a long period of time during which new jobs develop as a result of them - appear to create more jobs than they initially displace. Most of the initially displaced, however, do not receive these new jobs. In many cases, economies only eclipse initial jobs lost with new jobs gained decades, or perhaps a generation, after the introduction of the disruptive technology." That describes the phenomenon in total, as it should be explained.

Again, you're talking about technological change as if it happens in a single point in time, and only occasionally. If those thing were true, you'd have a point. But they aren't. New technology isn't adopted instantly and disruptive ones are being invented all the time.

Frankly a better argument for your worldview would be that past technological changes are poor guidance because they happened in a world where labor was a scarce input and thus could be redeployed to other productive use. Maybe today is different, because we've reached a technological threshold at which there are no other productive uses for labor. In other words, this time is different.

I don't happen to think that, but it would at least be a coherent point.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

He's been a man of his word. Between this and the feds declaring they will use no more private prisons, I'll happily concede to TM that I was wrong, and I have egg on my face. Obama has been beyond exemplary on this issue, and for this alone he should be ranked among the best Presidents we've had.

This issue is That Big. If we're the kind of people who'd jail our own citizens so cruelly, and let the most vile of predatory industrialists and financiers profit from it, the rest of everything about which we argue is immaterial... A country with that kind of rot in its core should collapse for the better of humanity.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

True and timely story -- I was dropping some old books off for Podunkville's Our Lady of Perpetual Motion's annual rummage sale yesterday after work, and saw a bunch of CDs for sale. Within mere inches of each other were copies of "Shake Your Moneymaker" and "Recovering the Satellites."

When I saw CDs from Better Than Ezra, Moxy Früvous (!), and the Wallflowers, I realized that someone bit the bullet and finally decided to clear out the old bedroom of their thirtysomething* child.

*Maybe even fortysomething at this point. Yikes.

Better Than Ezra is one of my least favorite band names. Ever. Time to freak the fuck out with some pre-Go Go-era Experience Unlimited. Back when they were seeking alternate consciousness musical funk-based realities. NotBob, have you listened to Gris Gris at midnight in a room lit only by candles yet? If not, maybe listen to this first, at dusk, in a room that has electric lighting, but nothing too bright or glaring. It will be a good first step for you. The Daily Dose is "Funky Consciousness":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbEk8Tbmzqg

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Better Than Ezra is one of my least favorite band names. Ever.

Pretty Little Flower is my second least favorite sock name. Ever........................................ 256 tied for first! Haha. Just tricking! Luv ya like a bro!

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Pretty Little Flower is my second least favorite sock name. Ever........................................ 256 tied for first! Haha. Just tricking! Luv ya like a bro!

That would make him your 257th least favorite sock name.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

That would make him your 257th least favorite sock name.

TM

Details.

I'm toying with making Thursdays into "JB Thursday" on the Daily Dose. Because, well, why the fuck not? Here is the long version of "Soul Power." Sometimes longer versions tend to be a bit self-indulgent, but I never find that with a good James Brown funk jam. Rock to this shit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0OJUcxdL24

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Details.

I'm toying with making Thursdays into "JB Thursday" on the Daily Dose. Because, well, why the fuck not?

I applaud this! We should all make decisions and pronouncements like this..... While we can. Once Trump takes over .......well

[Adder]

In the category of thoughts that aren't fully developed for more more public expression: while a confession in the Jacob Wetterling case confirms horrible things, it also could have been worse. Patty said he was alive to them until they found the remains last week, it's probably better that he was killed shortly after being taken rather than subjected to prolonged abuse.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Adder

In the category of thoughts that aren't fully developed for more more public expression: while a confession in the Jacob Wetterling case confirms horrible things, it also could have been worse. Patty said he was alive to them until they found the remains last week, it's probably better that he was killed shortly after being taken rather than subjected to prolonged abuse.

Watching Stranger Things over the three days that this story unfolded was somewhat freaky.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Watching Stranger Things over the three days that this story unfolded was somewhat freaky.

Spoiler SPOILER SPOILER














I was very disappointed in that show. Loved it at first, but the resolve was STOOPID!

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Spoiler SPOILER SPOILER














I was very disappointed in that show. Loved it at first, but the resolve was STOOPID!

Why?

TM

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Why?

TM

You watched?












Okay, 11 was great and the kids too. And all the drama of the monster and the mystery of the goop in the basement.

But there's this top level government agency apparently doing mind control experiments with at least one gifted person. Are there others, or is 11 unique? I assume there are others, but nothing more about it, or the goals of the program, other than some hints.

But that wasn't my problem. The government had little idea what the monster or the goop was about? They sent their guy in there to find out, but that didn't go well. So this monster, who steals people to be hosts for it's babies, has taken up residence in this otherwise protected lab; but there's no apparent tie to the mind control stuff. At a minimum, say the government hopes to someday harness this monster, at least move the mind control stuff somewhere safer. I mean I didn't see the upside down as anything the government really knew about, or did I miss something?

It just started with "here's a bunch of really weird shit," and the promise of explaining it, but the end was "well that was some really weird shit." Disappointing.

Plus it sucks Will is likely dying.


P.S. just saw there's a season two so maybe they go into stuff more?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

You watched?












Okay, 11 was great and the kids too. And all the drama of the monster and the mystery of the goop in the basement.

But there's this top level government agency apparently doing mind control experiments with at least one gifted person. Are there others, or is 11 unique? I assume there are others, but nothing more about it, or the goals of the program, other than some hints.

But that wasn't my problem. The government had little idea what the monster or the goop was about? They sent their guy in there to find out, but that didn't go well. So this monster, who steals people to be hosts for it's babies, has taken up residence in this otherwise protected lab; but there's no apparent tie to the mind control stuff. At a minimum, say the government hopes to someday harness this monster, at least move the mind control stuff somewhere safer. I mean I didn't see the upside down as anything the government really knew about, or did I miss something?

It just started with "here's a bunch of really weird shit," and the promise of explaining it, but the end was "well that was some really weird shit." Disappointing.

Plus it sucks Will is likely dying.


P.S. just saw there's a season two so maybe they go into stuff more?

SPOILER














I thought the upside down was something they discovered through Eleven when they were trying to get her to expand her telepathy to spy on the dude in Russia. Her freak out after her first interaction with the faceless monster was what tore open the hole between the two dimensions.

I don't know exactly, but I got the impression that she broke out of there very shortly after that happened, and the whole series took place over the course of a week or so. The government shifted focus quickly to the upside down as soon as it was discovered, but it wasn't the primary aim of that lab.

And she still had a connection to the upside down place. She knew where Will was in relation to his own world, and she was able to see Barb's corpse without actually GOING there. So if they wanted to study it, going telepathically was infinitely safer (for everyone but her) than sending in idiot volunteers to get slaughtered.