I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Although I don't *need* another expensive liquor habit, your life advice has never led me wrong, so Macallan 18 it is. (I drink higher-end Irish neat, so I don't think that I will be offending anyone by putting ice in it.)

18 is too smooth, and too expensive. And none of the Macallans are enhanced with ice. Laphroaig Quarter Cask is the whiskey you want if you're seeking premium flavor which is improved with ice or water. But it is a quite peaty, so be warned. (Once you develop a taste for it, however, it's hard to drink anything else.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Maybe this time is different, but don't pretend that you're saying something that hasn't been said ad nauseum back to antiquity and been wrong.

Don't pretend that back to antiquity, every time technology disap0lced a mass amount of workers, there hasn't been an interim period of extreme pain before that same technology created enough jobs to replace to those lost.

Economists, being McScientists and McAntropologists of the most dubious sort, love to cite laws in the absolute, out of context, and without consideration of time. Only a profession so full of shit and so often wrong would offer the argument, "Technology always ultimately creates more jobs!" without noting the process is lengthy and savages those unlucky enough to live through its more extreme instances.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

I don't know, now? We've got some slack still in the labor supply in prime age people who dropped out of the workforce, but nonetheless, we're currently in a low-unemployment environment.

True. But wages? Not so good: http://www.epi.org/publication/chart...ge-stagnation/

Sure, globalization and catch up growth means we're not going to continue to maintain the lead we've enjoyed in living standards, but result isn't the apocalypse you're predicting.

Donald Trump is the GOP nominee for President. Normally, I'd agree apocalyptic results would be outlier possibilities. But... Well, I'm not so quick to take anything off the table anymore. We are living in a bit of a Bizarro Universe.

ETA: It's not an argument. It's a historical observation.

The population has been growing on Earth for a pretty long period of time. In almost every country, its statistically impossible to state that there are less jobs as a result of tech than there were in years before. Inevitably, sooner or later, more jobs appear as more bodies appear. People tend to find stuff to do. The shitshow that took place during those tech upheavals is the interesting story.

The frictions you're talking about just don't play out the way you see it. Instead of masses of useless people without work, you get stagnant median wages and greater income inequality. Those are problems we more or less know how to solve (higher taxes on the rich and greater investment in education, research, training, etc). But again, one party doesn't want to solve them.

Jesus, man, really? Investment in education? Retraining? These are the most tired salves trotted out by the most uncreative politicians. They're the liberal equivalent of the conservatives' tired argument, "Just lower taxes on business and the job creators will fix everything!" That these "solutions" are still bandied about in the political sphere shows the intellectual stagnation of this country. Or more ominously, the collusion of the two parties to offer nothing more than competing forms of lip service to serious problems.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone

That statement may be the one thing that could bring about a Slave/Paigow reunion tour...

And give Chris Robinson a stroke.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And give Chris Robinson a stroke.

I rent an apartment on the UWS from the Black Crowes road manager. Are they the cool band or are CCs?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I rent an apartment on the UWS from the Black Crowes road manager. Are they the cool band or are CCs?

The Counting Crows guy has dreadlocks, which are counterculture, so probably them. Let's freak out a little with some Funkadelic. "Funky Dollar Bill" for the Daily Dose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfVSqQ7FcDY

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Jesus, man, really? Investment in education? Retraining? These are the most tired salves trotted out by the most uncreative politicians. They're the liberal equivalent of the conservatives' tired argument, "Just lower taxes on business and the job creators will fix everything!" That these "solutions" are still bandied about in the political sphere shows the intellectual stagnation of this country. Or more ominously, the collusion of the two parties to offer nothing more than competing forms of lip service to serious problems.

There is one and only one sensible solution to what ailes us in politics today.

Laphroaig Quarter Cask is the whiskey you want if you're seeking premium flavor which is improved with ice or water. But it is a quite peaty, so be warned. (Once you develop a taste for it, however, it's hard to drink anything else.)

And, yes, that is it.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I rent an apartment on the UWS from the Black Crowes road manager. Are they the cool band or are CCs?

Let the record reflect laughter.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Don't pretend that back to antiquity, every time technology disap0lced a mass amount of workers, there hasn't been an interim period of extreme pain before that same technology created enough jobs to replace to those lost.

There was some smashing of the aforementioned looms, but no, I don't think there are any significant historical examples of "extreme pain" in the form of meaningfully lowered living standards for any significant portion of the population.

I mean, it's possible I'm not aware of them, but you'd think something like the "steam engine famine" would be something we'd all know about.

Economists, being McScientists and McAntropologists of the most dubious sort, love to cite laws in the absolute, out of context, and without consideration of time. Only a profession so full of shit and so often wrong would offer the argument, "Technology always ultimately creates more jobs!" without noting the process is lengthy and savages those unlucky enough to live through its more extreme instances.

Again, this is a historical observation as much as an economic one. History is simply lacking in examples of technology making the world poorer.

You seem to be thinking about this in a much too static way. As if Day X has level Y of employment and technology, only to be disrupted on Day X+1 with a large shock the needs time to sort out. Instead, there's constant variability in employment and technology and few or no massive shocks. Day X+1 might have three fewer bank tellers than the day before, that one of those people got a different job for the same pay, one took a job with lesser pay and one was unemployed for a bit until they found something else. There are problems to be dealt with there, but no, technology didn't great a great mass of unneeded workers.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

True. But wages? Not so good: http://www.epi.org/publication/chart...ge-stagnation/

This is a fundamentally different observation than "technology is going to leave us with a lot of unneeded workers."

I also saw something today about more recent, short-term data on improving wages, but I didn't look at it closely (Teddy hurt his knee!), and can't put my finger on it right now.

Donald Trump is the GOP nominee for President. Normally, I'd agree apocalyptic results would be outlier possibilities. But... Well, I'm not so quick to take anything off the table anymore. We are living in a bit of a Bizarro Universe.

It's much less bizarro when you accept: (1) racists gonna racist and misogynists gonna misogyny, (2) the abject weakness of the rest of the GOP field, (3) the complete failure of the GOP to define themselves as for anything other than "not Obama" and their increasingly unpopular culture war.

Regardless, the rise of populist movements tells us a lot about voter sentiment. It doesn't tell us much about the economy, which no one, much less those voters, really understands.

People tend to find stuff to do.

Yes, you're getting it now.

The shitshow that took place during those tech upheavals is the interesting story.

Do tell.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Don't pretend that back to antiquity, every time technology disap0lced a mass amount of workers, there hasn't been an interim period of extreme pain before that same technology created enough jobs to replace to those lost.

Economists, being McScientists and McAntropologists of the most dubious sort, love to cite laws in the absolute, out of context, and without consideration of time. Only a profession so full of shit and so often wrong would offer the argument, "Technology always ultimately creates more jobs!" without noting the process is lengthy and savages those unlucky enough to live through its more extreme instances.

Microsoft did not dispute reports that it would spend $1.1 billion on the Boydton data center, and said that “on average, data centers employ tens to several dozen people,” in a mixture of corporate and contracted positions. It declined to let a reporter tour the site.

“They talked about 100 jobs, but it’s a slow process,” said Thomas C. Coleman III, the mayor of Boydton. So far, he says, the biggest impact “has been a couple of lunch tables at the Triangle gas station.”

link

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone

That statement may be the one thing that could bring about a Slave/Paigow reunion tour...

True and timely story -- I was dropping some old books off for Podunkville's Our Lady of Perpetual Motion's annual rummage sale yesterday after work, and saw a bunch of CDs for sale. Within mere inches of each other were copies of "Shake Your Moneymaker" and "Recovering the Satellites."

When I saw CDs from Better Than Ezra, Moxy Früvous (!), and the Wallflowers, I realized that someone bit the bullet and finally decided to clear out the old bedroom of their thirtysomething* child.

*Maybe even fortysomething at this point. Yikes.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Can I just say, I've laid in extra popcorn for this Mexico trip/immigration speech combo. What could go wrong?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

True and timely story -- I was dropping some old books off for Podunkville's Our Lady of Perpetual Motion's annual rummage sale yesterday after work, and saw a bunch of CDs for sale. Within mere inches of each other were copies of "Shake Your Moneymaker" and "Recovering the Satellites."

When I saw CDs from Better Than Ezra, Moxy Früvous (!), and the Wallflowers, I realized that someone bit the bullet and finally decided to clear out the old bedroom of their thirtysomething* child.

*Maybe even fortysomething at this point. Yikes.

Someone who has digital music went all Marie Kondo.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

For Sebby.