Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Good thing we chose a profession that requires lots of sitting. I should quit and become a mailman.

Read Dr Sarno.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Read Dr Sarno.

This guy...sounds like a quack?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

This guy...sounds like a quack?

Listen, don't listen. Fixed me.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Listen, don't listen. Fixed me.

Based on what I have read (not much) about him, he seems to be focused on back pain that cannot be explained by physical problems. But if you have identified a physical problem that is causing the back pain (e.g., herniated disks), then it does not seem like his methods are applicable. Is this not the case?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Based on what I have read (not much) about him, he seems to be focused on back pain that cannot be explained by physical problems. But if you have identified a physical problem that is causing the back pain (e.g., herniated disks), then it does not seem like his methods are applicable. Is this not the case?

His theory goes like this, there is way more back pain now (actually late 70s) then there had been. Physical problems can't explain the increase. You've been diagnosed as having disk problems? That's circular. Your back hurts so you see a doctor who sees abnormal disks and then wants to operate. But there are a ton of people with abnormal disks and no pain.

I am entirely a non-touchy feely guy. I ate Ibuprofen. I believe in doctors. But this worked for me. If someone has had surgery I don't try and tell them- they don't want to hear. But if you are headed in that direction it is worth the read. Basically, for a month or so you need to fight through the pain. Do everything you want to do, and "argue" with your brain.

edit- there is some issue your brain wants you to avoid confronting, so it gives you pain so you think about that. The solution is to think about the problem(s) when the pain comes. Eventually your brain realizes it is not achieving its goal.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

His theory goes like this, there is way more back pain now (actually late 70s) then there had been. Physical problems can't explain the increase. You've been diagnosed as having disk problems? That's circular. Your back hurts so you see a doctor who sees abnormal disks and then wants to operate. But there are a ton of people with abnormal disks and no pain.

I am entirely a non-touchy feely guy. I ate Ibuprofen. I believe in doctors. But this worked for me. If someone has had surgery I don't try and tell them- they don't want to hear. But if you are headed in that direction it is worth the read. Basically, for a month or so you need to fight through the pain. Do everything you want to do, and "argue" with your brain.

It's not actually that I was having back pain and decided to see a doctor. My back spasmed in the middle of the night, I fell out of bed, and was unable to move. I could not walk and stand up straight and, yes, I was experiencing crippling pain. The doctor did an MRI and showed me that one of my disks had split open and a significant part of the inside had squeezed out -- I could see this myself on the MRI. He said that the part that had squeezed out impinged a nerve root and caused the muscles in my back to spasm and the completely lock up as a protective mechanism. He gave me steroids to deal with the acute inflammation, which was exacerbating the situation. And he did want to operate. So I went to another doctor who said that you are in good shape and can probably manage the herniation through physical therapy and core work. Which I have done. Believe me, I have plenty of known and as yet unknown emotional problems, but I am skeptical that these are what caused my issues. Instead, there seems to be a pretty simple physical explanation for my problem, and once I learned what it was, I learned how to change my life to lessen the chance of it re-occurring. And of course there are lots of people with abnormal disks that do not have pain because, for example, there are varying degrees of herniations, and not all herniations impinge on nerve roots, etc.

I understand GGG's point, too, about training your mind to try to disregard the pain signals your brain is sending to alert you of a problem, but that seems to be a different issue than what Sarno was saying, which is that most of back pain is not caused by physical problems but by emotional issues. I recognize that I likely have an oversimplified view of Sarno.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

edit- there is some issue your brain wants you to avoid confronting, so it gives you pain so you think about that. The solution is to think about the problem(s) when the pain comes. Eventually your brain realizes it is not achieving its goal.

That may or may not be true in some cases. But it seems to me that, in many cases, my brain is sending pain signals because there is something that it DOES want me to confront. For example, I have a broken leg, so my brain sends pain signals so I don't try to walk on it. Or I have acute abdominal pain, and my brain is sending pain signals so I can get my appendix removed before it bursts.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

That may or may not be true in some cases. But it seems to me that, in many cases, my brain is sending pain signals because there is something that it DOES want me to confront. For example, I have a broken leg, so my brain sends pain signals so I don't try to walk on it. Or I have acute abdominal pain, and my brain is sending pain signals so I can get my appendix removed before it bursts.

His early writing was soft tissue only, but later editions (and the Doctors who carry on) extend it to tendon, ligaments, etc. I don't think he tries to extend it broken bones; at least yet.

Did your brain cause you to break the leg? Plus, you can't overcome the pain of a broken bone? I ignore that shit.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

That may or may not be true in some cases. But it seems to me that, in many cases, my brain is sending pain signals because there is something that it DOES want me to confront. For example, I have a broken leg, so my brain sends pain signals so I don't try to walk on it. Or I have acute abdominal pain, and my brain is sending pain signals so I can get my appendix removed before it bursts.

A friend of mine just expired for thinking difficulty breathing was probably just asthma. It was actually cardiac arrest. Game Over.

Some times your body is saying something. But then, other times, like this huge mole on my forehead that's been growing and bleeding occasionally, it's probably nothing.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

His theory goes like this, there is way more back pain now (actually late 70s) then there had been. Physical problems can't explain the increase. You've been diagnosed as having disk problems? That's circular. Your back hurts so you see a doctor who sees abnormal disks and then wants to operate. But there are a ton of people with abnormal disks and no pain.

I am entirely a non-touchy feely guy. I ate Ibuprofen. I believe in doctors. But this worked for me. If someone has had surgery I don't try and tell them- they don't want to hear. But if you are headed in that direction it is worth the read. Basically, for a month or so you need to fight through the pain. Do everything you want to do, and "argue" with your brain.

edit- there is some issue your brain wants you to avoid confronting, so it gives you pain so you think about that. The solution is to think about the problem(s) when the pain comes. Eventually your brain realizes it is not achieving its goal.

Is he just back? I'm pretty sure my hip thing is a strain. And physical therapy/chiropractor seems to be working very well. Not yet 100%, but closer to 80% or so, and it was keeping me up at night a month and a half ago.

I'm woo-woo enough to meditate the pain away, bu when sitting cross legged for meditation hurts, it's hard to focus on other things.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Is he just back? I'm pretty sure my hip thing is a strain. And physical therapy/chiropractor seems to be working very well. Not yet 100%, but closer to 80% or so, and it was keeping me up at night a month and a half ago.

I'm woo-woo enough to meditate the pain away, bu when sitting cross legged for meditation hurts, it's hard to focus on other things.

His first edition said back only. He is/had a terrible editor. I read a later edition. The early chapters said 'back." Then a chapter later "all soft tissue." Then a chapter later "soft tissue, tendons, ligaments." When I started I had bad back pain and plantar fasciitis. Now I'd say the theory goes to pretty much everything short of broken bones or torn ligaments.

The hard part is you have to buy into it.

It hurt like hell to run. But I had to do it, and focus my mind on the things I was avoiding. And after a month. it. Just. Stopped. I have not had running pain in years.

The current top doctor in the field actually works a few miles from my house. I had a session with him. They are hard core. I was about 3 weeks into running through it. I would put Ben Gay on before running to ease into it. The guy ordered me STOP. Ben Gay is throwing your brain a small win. Nothing.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Is he just back? I'm pretty sure my hip thing is a strain. And physical therapy/chiropractor seems to be working very well. Not yet 100%, but closer to 80% or so, and it was keeping me up at night a month and a half ago.

I'm woo-woo enough to meditate the pain away, bu when sitting cross legged for meditation hurts, it's hard to focus on other things.

focus on the pain. become the pain. feel where the pain is.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Based on what I have read (not much) about him, he seems to be focused on back pain that cannot be explained by physical problems. But if you have identified a physical problem that is causing the back pain (e.g., herniated disks), then it does not seem like his methods are applicable. Is this not the case?

Pain is not a thing that actually exists, merely signals created by our body to make sure we pay attention to something happening to it. If you learn to listen to those signals, you can control pain. It becomes optional.

I learned this when I was feeling a lot of pain because I had a couple of vertebrae being crushed. I learned to feel the vertebrae instead of the pain.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Pain is not a thing that actually exists, merely signals created by our body to make sure we pay attention to something happening to it. If you learn to listen to those signals, you can control pain. It becomes optional.

I learned this when I was feeling a lot of pain because I had a couple of vertebrae being crushed. I learned to feel the vertebrae instead of the pain.

The advice I find maddening is "take a break... rest for a few days." If I'm in pain, rest won't do shit. But what will make the pain go away? More physical activity.

You can run, bike, swim right through pain. Just get the endorphins rolling, get the heart rate up, and suddenly the pain goes away. Same works for colds and the flu. Just flush the shit out of your body.

It also works for hangovers. Walk into the gym feeling like death took a holiday, walk out feeling ready to grab another drink.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

death took a holiday,

I don't think you know what this phrase means.