Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I liked A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again. This led me to buy Broom of the System, which I simply could not finish.

For some reason I have been gifted multiple copies of Consider the Lobster. I should probably read one of them one of these days.

Infinite Jest is just too much a commitment. And too many people whom I've later determined have poor taste in literature have insisted it's the greatest book of all time.

BTW, if you read the econ pundits, Tyler Cowen really shit the bed with his latest, Big Business. It reads like something written by Steve Forbes and group of novice conservative anthropologists.

Infinite Jest is an early draft of his suicide note. It is incredibly sad. Consider the Lobster is a great airplane book, full of little bites you can snack on.

The central character in Broom, Lenore, is pretty recognizable to those of us who were there. The person the character is based on typed his thesis, which was the first draft of the book, so she gave him input on her own character.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Based on what I have read (not much) about him, he seems to be focused on back pain that cannot be explained by physical problems. But if you have identified a physical problem that is causing the back pain (e.g., herniated disks), then it does not seem like his methods are applicable. Is this not the case?

His theory goes like this, there is way more back pain now (actually late 70s) then there had been. Physical problems can't explain the increase. You've been diagnosed as having disk problems? That's circular. Your back hurts so you see a doctor who sees abnormal disks and then wants to operate. But there are a ton of people with abnormal disks and no pain.

I am entirely a non-touchy feely guy. I ate Ibuprofen. I believe in doctors. But this worked for me. If someone has had surgery I don't try and tell them- they don't want to hear. But if you are headed in that direction it is worth the read. Basically, for a month or so you need to fight through the pain. Do everything you want to do, and "argue" with your brain.

edit- there is some issue your brain wants you to avoid confronting, so it gives you pain so you think about that. The solution is to think about the problem(s) when the pain comes. Eventually your brain realizes it is not achieving its goal.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Based on what I have read (not much) about him, he seems to be focused on back pain that cannot be explained by physical problems. But if you have identified a physical problem that is causing the back pain (e.g., herniated disks), then it does not seem like his methods are applicable. Is this not the case?

Pain is not a thing that actually exists, merely signals created by our body to make sure we pay attention to something happening to it. If you learn to listen to those signals, you can control pain. It becomes optional.

I learned this when I was feeling a lot of pain because I had a couple of vertebrae being crushed. I learned to feel the vertebrae instead of the pain.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

His theory goes like this, there is way more back pain now (actually late 70s) then there had been. Physical problems can't explain the increase. You've been diagnosed as having disk problems? That's circular. Your back hurts so you see a doctor who sees abnormal disks and then wants to operate. But there are a ton of people with abnormal disks and no pain.

I am entirely a non-touchy feely guy. I ate Ibuprofen. I believe in doctors. But this worked for me. If someone has had surgery I don't try and tell them- they don't want to hear. But if you are headed in that direction it is worth the read. Basically, for a month or so you need to fight through the pain. Do everything you want to do, and "argue" with your brain.

It's not actually that I was having back pain and decided to see a doctor. My back spasmed in the middle of the night, I fell out of bed, and was unable to move. I could not walk and stand up straight and, yes, I was experiencing crippling pain. The doctor did an MRI and showed me that one of my disks had split open and a significant part of the inside had squeezed out -- I could see this myself on the MRI. He said that the part that had squeezed out impinged a nerve root and caused the muscles in my back to spasm and the completely lock up as a protective mechanism. He gave me steroids to deal with the acute inflammation, which was exacerbating the situation. And he did want to operate. So I went to another doctor who said that you are in good shape and can probably manage the herniation through physical therapy and core work. Which I have done. Believe me, I have plenty of known and as yet unknown emotional problems, but I am skeptical that these are what caused my issues. Instead, there seems to be a pretty simple physical explanation for my problem, and once I learned what it was, I learned how to change my life to lessen the chance of it re-occurring. And of course there are lots of people with abnormal disks that do not have pain because, for example, there are varying degrees of herniations, and not all herniations impinge on nerve roots, etc.

I understand GGG's point, too, about training your mind to try to disregard the pain signals your brain is sending to alert you of a problem, but that seems to be a different issue than what Sarno was saying, which is that most of back pain is not caused by physical problems but by emotional issues. I recognize that I likely have an oversimplified view of Sarno.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

If you’re Trump. Recall in 2016, GOP competitors tried to say dumb things and were not given the same pass.

Soft bigotry of basement level expectations?

Right -- he has other political skills that more than mitigate his propensity for the gaffe. As he shows, an ability to avoid saying something stupid is not the ne plus ultra of political skills.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

edit- there is some issue your brain wants you to avoid confronting, so it gives you pain so you think about that. The solution is to think about the problem(s) when the pain comes. Eventually your brain realizes it is not achieving its goal.

That may or may not be true in some cases. But it seems to me that, in many cases, my brain is sending pain signals because there is something that it DOES want me to confront. For example, I have a broken leg, so my brain sends pain signals so I don't try to walk on it. Or I have acute abdominal pain, and my brain is sending pain signals so I can get my appendix removed before it bursts.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

That may or may not be true in some cases. But it seems to me that, in many cases, my brain is sending pain signals because there is something that it DOES want me to confront. For example, I have a broken leg, so my brain sends pain signals so I don't try to walk on it. Or I have acute abdominal pain, and my brain is sending pain signals so I can get my appendix removed before it bursts.

His early writing was soft tissue only, but later editions (and the Doctors who carry on) extend it to tendon, ligaments, etc. I don't think he tries to extend it broken bones; at least yet.

Did your brain cause you to break the leg? Plus, you can't overcome the pain of a broken bone? I ignore that shit.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

That may or may not be true in some cases. But it seems to me that, in many cases, my brain is sending pain signals because there is something that it DOES want me to confront. For example, I have a broken leg, so my brain sends pain signals so I don't try to walk on it. Or I have acute abdominal pain, and my brain is sending pain signals so I can get my appendix removed before it bursts.

A friend of mine just expired for thinking difficulty breathing was probably just asthma. It was actually cardiac arrest. Game Over.

Some times your body is saying something. But then, other times, like this huge mole on my forehead that's been growing and bleeding occasionally, it's probably nothing.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Infinite Jest is an early draft of his suicide note. It is incredibly sad. Consider the Lobster is a great airplane book, full of little bites you can snack on.

The central character in Broom, Lenore, is pretty recognizable to those of us who were there. The person the character is based on typed his thesis, which was the first draft of the book, so she gave him input on her own character.

I may have to give it another shot. I do like his writing. I mean, technically, it's really exquisite. But he could meander a good bit and describe with complex constructions that which could be much more effectively conveyed in fewer words than a tweet.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Pain is not a thing that actually exists, merely signals created by our body to make sure we pay attention to something happening to it. If you learn to listen to those signals, you can control pain. It becomes optional.

I learned this when I was feeling a lot of pain because I had a couple of vertebrae being crushed. I learned to feel the vertebrae instead of the pain.

The advice I find maddening is "take a break... rest for a few days." If I'm in pain, rest won't do shit. But what will make the pain go away? More physical activity.

You can run, bike, swim right through pain. Just get the endorphins rolling, get the heart rate up, and suddenly the pain goes away. Same works for colds and the flu. Just flush the shit out of your body.

It also works for hangovers. Walk into the gym feeling like death took a holiday, walk out feeling ready to grab another drink.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

death took a holiday,

I don't think you know what this phrase means.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Listen, don't listen. Fixed me.

I'll look into it a little more. What I've tried to do is lighten the load on my spine (by losing weight) and strengthening the muscles around the structural issues (by dead-lifting and squatting). For me, just stretching out my hamstrings can relieve the pain sometimes.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Adder

I twinged it picking up the kid earlier this summer, so it's not like I'm immune to back pain, but it just doesn't happen all that often and it's nothing that rest and ice/heat can't deal with in a few days.

Although I did still bike commute the next day because biking hurt less than the walk to the bus stop.

Resting is the worst thing I can do when it flares up. Walking for miles right after I tweak it is the best. We were just at Universal and averaged about 11 miles a day of walking. My back felt fantastic (but that was probably because my wallet was so much lighter - HEYOOO!).

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

His early writing was soft tissue only, but later editions (and the Doctors who carry on) extend it to tendon, ligaments, etc. I don't think he tries to extend it broken bones; at least yet.

Did your brain cause you to break the leg? Plus, you can't overcome the pain of a broken bone? I ignore that shit.

So if a basketball player tears an ACL, the doctor will tell them that the pain is not because of the torn ACL, but because of some emotional issue that the basketball player is trying to avoid confronting, and if the player just ignores the pain, the brain will eventually stop sending pain signals and everything will be better?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

So if a basketball player tears an ACL, the doctor will tell them that the pain is not because of the torn ACL, but because of some emotional issue that the basketball player is trying to avoid confronting, and if the player just ignores the pain, the brain will eventually stop sending pain signals and everything will be better?

Actual film of Dr. Sarno