Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Ty:

"Many conservatives feel that they are losing their country to cosmopolitans and blacks and Hispanics. And they are. Demographically and culturally, they are losing. And they know it. No bridging that gap."

True, but that doesn't explain last night. This vote was all about the economy. Almost every poll confirmed this fact.

The Democratic Senate has been in power during a time of Main Street economic malaise. So Main Street threw them out. If the GOP fucks it up over the next 24 months, which they will because the economic problems we face are beyond political control, they'll lose seats.

It wasn't all about the economy, and it wasn't all about voter suppression, although both were huge factors.

It was also largely about Obama's failure to either deliver on his promises or stand tall and fight for his principles.

The man who was mentored by people who fought against the Chicago PD's Red Squads sought to spy on his own citizens and then lied about it.

His Justice Department was very, very quiet on voter suppression.

He took union money, and made a few nice remarks, but he never really stood up and said he was a union man.

He promised health care reform and offered a watered down compromise that didn't make anyone happy. The only really solid reform to come out of Obamacare was doing away with preexisting condition limitations.

And he made it clear he was not a blind friend of Israel, wagging his tail whenever Netanyahu patted his head. But he didn't stand up when the Arab democracy movements needed international support.

In short, he's a classic Chicago politician: Promise them everything, then cut a deal just to say you put something in place. If he had taken the lead from the beginning, and made it a solid choice between good and evil, I believe we would be in a much different place.

But he didn't.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Interesting. Do you have a cite on those polls?

The economy is actually doing reasonably well. Unemployment is below 6%, the stock market is hot, business profits are at unusually high levels. Massachusetts is doing phenomenally well on both an absolute and a relative basis, yet it elected a Republican governor. My read is that dissatisfaction is there but less focused on any one item or issue. A sort of incessant grumbling rather than a focused rage.

The economy is always a major driver, but my read is that it was not relatively critical, and if anything played less of a role than usual.

I respectfully disagree. Wage stagflation/deflation means that, for many Americans, the economy is *not* improving. My working class cousins aren't invested in the stock market and they don't see any of the "unusually high" business profits coming their way. You cannot discount their frustration - and you also cannot disagree with them when they say that the president hasn't done enough.

Of course, a Republican Senate isn't likely to help them either, but that's a different issue.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

You take that back.

Wonk, you know I love you like the older cousin who turned me on to George Carlin's "Class Clown" - I would never say that *to* you. It was merely a suggestion for thread title (loosely based on Hank's comment to TM).

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

It wasn't all about the economy, and it wasn't all about voter suppression, although both were huge factors.

It was also largely about Obama's failure to either deliver on his promises or stand tall and fight for his principles.

The man who was mentored by people who fought against the Chicago PD's Red Squads sought to spy on his own citizens and then lied about it.

His Justice Department was very, very quiet on voter suppression.

He took union money, and made a few nice remarks, but he never really stood up and said he was a union man.

He promised health care reform and offered a watered down compromise that didn't make anyone happy. The only really solid reform to come out of Obamacare was doing away with preexisting condition limitations.

And he made it clear he was not a blind friend of Israel, wagging his tail whenever Netanyahu patted his head. But he didn't stand up when the Arab democracy movements needed international support.

In short, he's a classic Chicago politician: Promise them everything, then cut a deal just to say you put something in place. If he had taken the lead from the beginning, and made it a solid choice between good and evil, I believe we would be in a much different place.

But he didn't.

I am more positive about Obama than you are, but I completely agree that he didn't give Democrats a reason to get out and vote. So they didn't.

eta: He built this awesome machine for getting himself elected, but has been uninterested or unable to harness it to any other end.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

I respectfully disagree. Wage stagflation/deflation means that, for many Americans, the economy is *not* improving. My working class cousins aren't invested in the stock market and they don't see any of the "unusually high" business profits coming their way. You cannot discount their frustration - and you also cannot disagree with them when they say that the president hasn't done enough.

Of course, a Republican Senate isn't likely to help them either, but that's a different issue.

Good point. This may even be a particular issue in some of the red states where elections occurred. I don't think it's what drove the Republican pick up of a congressional seat in NH or the pickup of the Mass. governor's race. I really would like to see the data and what was keyed in on as far as the economy.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

My aunt lost her race for state senate :-(

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

My aunt lost her race for state senate :-(

I'm sorry. I have no doubt she would have done a great job.

[Replaced_Texan]

I've been taking comfort in a) 2004 was more heartbreaking for me and b) 2004 was followed by 2006. Republicans are a great opposition party. They're pretty godawful when they're in power.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

It wasn't all about the economy, and it wasn't all about voter suppression, although both were huge factors.

It was also largely about Obama's failure to either deliver on his promises or stand tall and fight for his principles.

The man who was mentored by people who fought against the Chicago PD's Red Squads sought to spy on his own citizens and then lied about it.

His Justice Department was very, very quiet on voter suppression.

He took union money, and made a few nice remarks, but he never really stood up and said he was a union man.

He promised health care reform and offered a watered down compromise that didn't make anyone happy. The only really solid reform to come out of Obamacare was doing away with preexisting condition limitations.

And he made it clear he was not a blind friend of Israel, wagging his tail whenever Netanyahu patted his head. But he didn't stand up when the Arab democracy movements needed international support.

In short, he's a classic Chicago politician: Promise them everything, then cut a deal just to say you put something in place. If he had taken the lead from the beginning, and made it a solid choice between good and evil, I believe we would be in a much different place.

But he didn't.

I understand people's criticism of Obama, for the most part. But I don't know how many of the points you outlined above are stated as if you just arrived to this country yesterday from some weird place in which you do not know anything about what is and isn't possible.

I wanted him to be way left of where he ended up being, but I remember that he didn't run on a way left platform. I wanted him to pass significant health care reform, but realized that that shit was not fucking possible. I wanted him to tell Netanyahoooo to sit down and shut the fuck up every once in awhile, etc., etc. etc. But I am not insane. And if he went too far left on anything, the voting public, which is made up of children, would have thrown a fit and he would have lost even the Democrats who wanted to get shit done.

I don't agree with everything the man has done, but to act like yesterday was about specific issues with people and not this sort of general malaise that will hang over this country due to a recovering economy (yeah, more jobs, but all shitty, low-paying jobs), a non-Ebola crisis (at least in the US), trouble with ISIS that hasn't affected anyone even indirectly (who doesn't serve), and various school and other mass shootings, etc., is just plain bullshit.

I'm with Maher. Democrats should start ignoring polls and selling the good shit they've done. The polls will move in your direction because people are stupid and are programmed to repeat what they've seen over and over again. Stop running away from your actual accomplisments.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by thurgreedmarshall

i understand people's criticism of obama, for the most part. But i don't know how many of the points you outlined above are stated as if you just arrived to this country yesterday from some weird place in which you do not know anything about what is and isn't possible.

I wanted him to be way left of where he ended up being, but i remember that he didn't run on a way left platform. I wanted him to pass significant health care reform, but realized that that shit was not fucking possible. I wanted him to tell netanyahoooo to sit down and shut the fuck up every once in awhile, etc., etc. Etc. But i am not insane. And if he went too far left on anything, the voting public, which is made up of children, would have thrown a fit and he would have lost even the democrats who wanted to get shit done.

I don't agree with everything the man has done, but to act like yesterday was about specific issues with people and not this sort of general malaise that will hang over this country due to a recovering economy (yeah, more jobs, but all shitty, low-paying jobs), a non-ebola crisis (at least in the us), trouble with isis that hasn't effected anyone even indirectly (who doesn't serve), and various school and other mass shootings, etc., is just plain bullshit.

I'm with maher. Democrats should start ignoring polls and selling the good shit they've done. The polls will move in your direction because people are stupid and are programmed to repeat what they've seen over and over again. Stop running away from your actual accomplisments.

Tm

2

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I understand people's criticism of Obama, for the most part. But I don't know how many of the points you outlined above are stated as if you just arrived to this country yesterday from some weird place in which you do not know anything about what is and isn't possible.

I wanted him to be way left of where he ended up being, but I remember that he didn't run on a way left platform. I wanted him to pass significant health care reform, but realized that that shit was not fucking possible. I wanted him to tell Netanyahoooo to sit down and shut the fuck up every once in awhile, etc., etc. etc. But I am not insane. And if he went too far left on anything, the voting public, which is made up of children, would have thrown a fit and he would have lost even the Democrats who wanted to get shit done.

I don't agree with everything the man has done, but to act like yesterday was about specific issues with people and not this sort of general malaise that will hang over this country due to a recovering economy (yeah, more jobs, but all shitty, low-paying jobs), a non-Ebola crisis (at least in the US), trouble with ISIS that hasn't effected anyone even indirectly (who doesn't serve), and various school and other mass shootings, etc., is just plain bullshit.

I'm with Maher. Democrats should start ignoring polls and selling the good shit they've done. The polls will move in your direction because people are stupid and are programmed to repeat what they've seen over and over again. Stop running away from your actual accomplisments.

TM

You had me right up until you said you're with Maher. I'm as far away from that racist shitbag as I can be. One of the things we Dems have to do is deflate his sorry overblown ego.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You had me right up until you said you're with Maher. I'm as far away from that racist shitbag as I can be. One of the things we Dems have to do is deflate his sorry overblown ego.

I say he's one of the first up against the wall when the revolution comes, but that can wait until then.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You had me right up until you said you're with Maher. I'm as far away from that racist shitbag as I can be. One of the things we Dems have to do is deflate his sorry overblown ego.

To clarify, I'm with him on that point (and others, but that's not relevant right now).

No question his ego is severely overblown. But how is he a racist? Is it because he shits on Islam constantly?

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

This is the country in which we live: http://www.local10.com/news/police-c...eless/29510268

TM

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

To clarify, I'm with him on that point (and others, but that's not relevant right now).

No question his ego is severely overblown. But how is he a racist? Is it because he shits on Islam constantly?

TM

Yes. He shits on everyone Islamic or Arabic with a gleeful ignorance about both Islam and MENA and an eagerness to paint everyone as a caricature. I know it gets him ratings to be a bloviating ignorant shitbag.