Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

If you haven't done so already, you really should read the New York magazine interview (by Frank Rich) of Chris Rock. Dude is not only funny, but smart. And optimistic. And now I want to see his new movie.

One part I particularly liked was where he explained people's disappointment with Obama - something to the effect of "we were expecting a Michael Jordan and we got a Shaq or Charles Barkley."

Anyway, here you go: http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris...versation.html

Chris Rock:

When we talk about race relations in America or racial progress, it's all nonsense. There are no race relations. White people were crazy. Now they're not as crazy. To say that black people have made progress would be to say they deserve what happened to them before…

So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he's the first black person that is qualified to be president. That's not black progress. That's white progress. There's been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship's improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." It's not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner’s relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn't. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let's hope America keeps producing nicer white people.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Chris Rock:

see. Despite all the slurs you guys throw at me, Chris Rock thinks I'm nice.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Chris Rock:

Like I've said before, fuckin white people.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he's the first black person that is qualified to be president. That's not black progress. That's white progress. There's been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship's improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." It's not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner’s relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn't. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let's hope America keeps producing nicer white people.

Sad to say, but Chris Rock may be too generous to white America as a whole here. If I saw Ike and Tina Turner sitting together, I probably wouldn't think "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." I'd more likely think "I hope he's stopped punching her in the face, but I'm worried that he's just being nice for a little while and will turn out to be the same shit he always was."

When Obama was elected (and before that, when people I never expected to be capable of voting for a black man told me they wished Colin Powell would run), I thought "maybe this means we're getting over some things." But I'm afraid I should have thought "but maybe we're just being nice for a little while, and a bunch of the old ugliness is going to come back out again."

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Sad to say, but Chris Rock may be too generous to white America as a whole here. If I saw Ike and Tina Turner sitting together, I probably wouldn't think "Oh, he stopped punching her in the face." I'd more likely think "I hope he's stopped punching her in the face, but I'm worried that he's just being nice for a little while and will turn out to be the same shit he always was."

When Obama was elected (and before that, when people I never expected to be capable of voting for a black man told me they wished Colin Powell would run), I thought "maybe this means we're getting over some things." But I'm afraid I should have thought "but maybe we're just being nice for a little while, and a bunch of the old ugliness is going to come back out again."

Powell and Obama are two very different situations. Powell was okay because he was a Black Republican from the military. In Whiteworld, that's a perfect token. Obama was a Black Democrat with hints of a social justice agenda. In Whiteworld, that's a Socialist.

The thinking I've heard applied to both among whites is, paraphrasing, a guy like Powell would be a good example for Blacks. He'd be a Bill Cosby, telling Black youth to pull up their pants and join the Army.* Obama (who actually did give such a speech), is a Black who just wants to steal money and give it to welfare mothers, Acorn, and Al Sharpton.**

Whites want to celebrate Black achievement because it makes them feel good about society, and excuses a lot of disparity that remains as a remnant of slavery and Jim Crow. But a majority also demand that Blacks of highest achievement retain a bit of Uncle Tom subservience. Obama had the temerity to take control and tell white America all was not well. This pissed off a lot of these types. How dare the Black they allowed to be President say he wants to change things? Nevermind that he actually ran the country, for the most part, like a moderate Republican.

_______
* Obviously, this comparison is no longer used.
** A similar comparison might be Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas. Whites love Clarence. Quick to tell you how great an example he is for Black youth. Marshall's rarely mentioned, despite his opinions holding 5X the intellectual heft of anything Thomas could ever hope to author, and most being of far greater historical significance.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Powell and Obama are two very different situations. Powell was okay because he was a Black Republican from the military. In Whiteworld, that's a perfect token. Obama was a Black Democrat with hints of a social justice agenda. In Whiteworld, that's a Socialist.

The thinking I've heard applied to both among whites is, paraphrasing, a guy like Powell would be a good example for Blacks. He'd be a Bill Cosby, telling Black youth to pull up their pants and join the Army.* Obama (who actually did give such a speech), is a Black who just wants to steal money and give it to welfare mothers, Acorn, and Al Sharpton.**

Whites want to celebrate Black achievement because it makes them feel good about society, and excuses a lot of disparity that remains as a remnant of slavery and Jim Crow. But a majority also demand that Blacks of highest achievement retain a bit of Uncle Tom subservience. Obama had the temerity to take control and tell white America all was not well. This pissed off a lot of these types. How dare the Black they allowed to be President say he wants to change things? Nevermind that he actually ran the country, for the most part, like a moderate Republican.

_______
* Obviously, this comparison is no longer used.
** A similar comparison might be Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas. Whites love Clarence. Quick to tell you how great an example he is for Black youth. Marshall's rarely mentioned, despite his opinions holding 5X the intellectual heft of anything Thomas could ever hope to author, and most being of far greater historical significance.

So whites were okay, conceptually, with having a black man as President -- but only if he didn't get all uppity about it?

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

So whites were okay, conceptually, with having a black man as President -- but only if he didn't get all uppity about it?

See, now that's your fatal flaw. He was going to get uppity about it no matter who he was and no matter how many people agreed with him. There's a huge portion of the population for whom running is getting uppity.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

So whites were okay, conceptually, with having a black man as President -- but only if he didn't get all uppity about it?

Not all. Many are still just generally racist. But far, far more Whites fit into the group I describe. They like the idea of Obama, but they don't want to hear him discussing any of the racial and class issues in the country. "Can't he just be happy he's been elected? I mean-- Isn't it awesome we Whites got behind a Black guy? He should be really positive all the time and never discuss race."

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Where the fuck do we even live? What is this place? What THE FUCK?

TM

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Not all. Many are still just generally racist. But far, far more Whites fit into the group I describe. They like the idea of Obama, but they don't want to hear him discussing any of the racial and class issues in the country. "Can't he just be happy he's been elected? I mean-- Isn't it awesome we Whites got behind a Black guy? He should be really positive all the time and never discuss race."

To be clear, I agree with you and was saying the same thing, in a joking way.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

** A similar comparison might be Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas. Whites love Clarence. Quick to tell you how great an example he is for Black youth.

We must run in different circles as the white people I hang around with (who know who he is) have no esteem for Justice Thomas.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Where the fuck do we even live? What is this place? What THE FUCK?

TM

We live in the place where the prosecutors care a whole lot more about the cops than the citizens, apparently.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

We live in the place where the prosecutors care a whole lot more about the cops than the citizens, apparently.

Let's take a step back. I agree that, at least in the Ferguson case, the prosecutor basically decided he would do everything he could to avoid an indictment.* And we need to pass a federal law creating some sort of independent prosecutor's office that can intercede sua sponte.**

However, there were jury members there who listened to very damning evidence, even with all the mitigating bullshit they heard, in both these cases. Those people chose not to indict. This is a serious problem. And it seems to be rampant.

TM

*Not sure what happened yet in the Garner case, but it's fucking Staten Island, so let's just call it pure racism with a combination of extreme support for white cops and fireman who are overrepresented in that community.

**Ha ha ha ha ha! What the fuck am I even talking about? No really. What.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Where the fuck do we even live? What is this place? What THE FUCK?

TM

I don't know much about this, but here is what I do know: An unarmed black man is suspected of illegally selling cigarettes. He puts his hands up. Next thing, he’s brought to the ground from behind with an illegal chokehold (per the police’s own procedures) gasping that he can’t breathe, and dies. And it’s all on video! And his death is ruled a homicide by the coroner. And there is no indictment.

Are there facts that I am missing or that the media has not covered that make that last sentence less incomprehensible to me? Seriously, because I fully admit that this is not a case I followed closely. But, wow.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I don't know much about this, but here is what I do know: An unarmed black man is suspected of illegally selling cigarettes. He puts his hands up. Next thing, he’s brought to the ground from behind with an illegal chokehold (per the police’s own procedures) gasping that he can’t breathe, and dies. And it’s all on video! And his death is ruled a homicide by the coroner. And there is no indictment.

Are there facts that I am missing or that the media has not covered that make that last sentence less incomprehensible to me? Seriously, because I fully admit that this is not a case I followed closely. But, wow.

You forgot to mention that the Staten Island grand jury *did* manage to indict the guy who videotaped poor Mr. Garner being choked to death by the cop. http://www.silive.com/northshore/ind..._grand_ju.html