Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I read something written by a dad whose son was killed in Wisconsin where they got a state law passed taking police killing out of the local prosecutors hands. I believe it sets up a special prosecutor automatically.

I read that too and it is the right thing to do.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

I read that too and it is the right thing to do.

Reading it is the right thing to do. But what do you think about passing the law?

TM

[In case you assume my mood is where it actually has been over the past week, this is a weak attempt at a joke.]

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Reading it is the right thing to do. But what do you think about passing the law?

TM

[In case you assume my mood is where it actually has been over the past week, this is a weak attempt at a joke.]

Interstate 35W northbound shut down by protesters:

http://live.startribune.com/Event/Br...th_Minneapolis

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Interstate 35W northbound shut down by protesters:

http://live.startribune.com/Event/Br...th_Minneapolis

I am somewhat heartened by the number of white people involved in the protests from NYC to MN to Ferguson.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

I agree on a mini-trial but why shouldn't counsel for the defendant be put on notice of the evidence used to indict?

When? Because I'm pretty sure that happens now after an indictment.

I'm not necessarily against more disclosure to the defense, but I'm just not sure what role they would play inside the grand jury room, unless you're going to have a mini-trial, in which case, why have a grand jury.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I read something written by a dad whose son was killed in Wisconsin where they got a state law passed taking police killing out of the local prosecutors hands. I believe it sets up a special prosecutor automatically.

I have a hard time imagining good faith arguments against it.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-da...NTgwNTA0MTk1S0

"A central issue in cases like this is a failure to fully value black lives. That alone can be deadly. But we should also ask about a companion problem, one that shows itself the most with regard to accountability: an over-weighting of white intentions. As any prosecutor knows, there are offenses on the books that don’t turn on a will to murder, or crude racism, or even unkindness. Officer Pantaleo says that he didn’t want to kill anyone; Officer Wilson was scared. Each of them might still have been charged with a crime."

This is an interesting point. We (or at least, I) focus so much on what the jurors think of the black victim in these cases and how so many Fox-fuckers require blacks to achieve perfect victim status in order to avoid deserving being put down like a rabid dog in the street. But this willingness to believe whatever white cops say to a jury is a problem probably of the same scale. Not all cops are bad, but jesus fucking christ. Not all cops are good. And the cops involved in shootings of unarmed people are probably the ones who trend bad and should not be given the benefit of the doubt on every fucking thing they say.

TM

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Where any person is killed by a cop, this should be the rule. If there's enough evidence to get to the GJ on whether a cop wrongly killed an armed individual, a special prosecutor should be involved.



The GJ secrecy thing should end. Anytime, anywhere, a panel meets to determine whether an individual should be deprived of his liberty (or in this instance, a criminal be shielded from prosecution), the public should have a right to hear its proceedings. And fuck the rule that defense counsel cannot be present. It should work like a mini trial.

The last time I got called to jury duty, the judge asked everyone to consider serving on a grand jury, as there were some openings coming up. I think it was a three month term. I took the information sheet, thinking I'd give it to my mom, who was the only person I could think of who met the criteria.

The only people who could consider such a thing are people who don't work or school or small kids they're taking care of and have reliable transportation to the courthouse every day (or three days, or however long), and have nothing better to do. They see cops as good guys every single time they convene. They indict black men all of the time, so they wouldn't have any difficulty believing that cigarette sale/cigarillo theft is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Interstate 35W northbound shut down by protesters:

http://live.startribune.com/Event/Br...th_Minneapolis

I watched them from my office as they approached downtown. Then having wrapped something up, I decided to go down and check it out.

Half marched with them (seemed a little disingenuous to jump in for the last quarter mile) into city hall (I'm actually in one of those photos).

Main observation: the group was overwhelmingly white. Not sure what to make of that. Minneapolis is, obviously, and its activist class perhaps even more so. Also, great to see solidarity. Still, a lot of these people did not appear to be the true owners of outrage. I'm not exactly sure, but I thought maybe the protest started out as being about pay for fast food workers (there was one in Uptown this morning I think), so maybe that's a factor.

Other observation, the MPD did a very nice job escorting them through downtown, blocking traffic and staying out of the way. I wondered whether the phalanx of officers surrounding them in the city hall entry way was intended to be intimidating, but what I saw went smoothly.

Duty called me back to the office before the die in.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

The last time I got called to jury duty, the judge asked everyone to consider serving on a grand jury, as there were some openings coming up. I think it was a three month term. I took the information sheet, thinking I'd give it to my mom, who was the only person I could think of who met the criteria.

The only people who could consider such a thing are people who don't work or school or small kids they're taking care of and have reliable transportation to the courthouse every day (or three days, or however long), and have nothing better to do. They see cops as good guys every single time they convene. They indict black men all of the time, so they wouldn't have any difficulty believing that cigarette sale/cigarillo theft is just the tip of the iceberg.

I spent five weeks on a grand jury in DC. Didn't really have a choice. If you were a citizen who spoke English they weren't letting you out of the summons. A total of 27 days, usually all day, although sometimes we were dismissed early for the day.

And, frankly, it wasn't such a bad gig as a first year Biglaw associate, as there wasn't a ton of work that could be done around the edges of 9-5 jury service.

And, of course, it was DC, so the demographics skewed black and I wouldn't have said there was a lot of love for the cops, but we didn't hear any cases in which an officer was the accused.

I'd say the group probably skewed toward the retired (obviously, some people just don't show), but there was at least one kid younger than me and a few people in their prime working years.

ETA: Of course, DC is different.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-da...NTgwNTA0MTk1S0

"A central issue in cases like this is a failure to fully value black lives. That alone can be deadly. But we should also ask about a companion problem, one that shows itself the most with regard to accountability: an over-weighting of white intentions. As any prosecutor knows, there are offenses on the books that don’t turn on a will to murder, or crude racism, or even unkindness. Officer Pantaleo says that he didn’t want to kill anyone; Officer Wilson was scared. Each of them might still have been charged with a crime."

This is an interesting point. We (or at least, I) focus so much on what the jurors think of the black victim in these cases and how so many Fox-fuckers require blacks to achieve perfect victim status in order to avoid deserving being put down like a rabid dog in the street. But this willingness to believe whatever white cops say to a jury is a problem probably of the same scale. Not all cops are bad, but jesus fucking christ. Not all cops are good. And the cops involved in shootings of unarmed people are probably the ones who trend bad and should not be given the benefit of the doubt on every fucking thing they say.

TM

Maybe moreso when the victim is black, but the article about Wisconsin was written by the father of a murdered white kid where the cop was not indicted. I just can't help thinking about them ordering my kid to stop or they'd shoot because they thought he might have a baggie of weed, which was decriminalized in NYC a few months later. Just nuts.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Two ways our justice system has broken down all over the front pages:

Cops shooting black men and boys without repercussion.

Women and girls getting raped, whether by Cosby, UVa preppies, or military brass, without repercussion.

Related? Unrelated? Vent at will.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Two ways our justice system has broken down all over the front pages:

Cops shooting black men and boys without repercussion.

Women and girls getting raped, whether by Cosby, UVa preppies, or military brass, without repercussion.

Related? Unrelated? Vent at will.

All of the suck in the world is the fault of men. Nearly all of it is the fault of white men.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Two ways our justice system has broken down all over the front pages:

Cops shooting black men and boys without repercussion.

Women and girls getting raped, whether by Cosby, UVa preppies, or military brass, without repercussion.

Related? Unrelated? Vent at will.

I think this shit has been going on forever, but it's a little easier to get the word out now with mass communication and media. I wish the Cosby thing surprised me more, but I should have known better than to assume that a cultivated persona was in any way similar to the real person.

People in power will abuse that power.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Maybe moreso when the victim is black, but the article about Wisconsin was written by the father of a murdered white kid where the cop was not indicted. I just can't help thinking about them ordering my kid to stop or they'd shoot because they thought he might have a baggie of weed, which was decriminalized in NYC a few months later. Just nuts.

Once upon a time, part of the answer always suggested to this kind of crap was more training.

But post-broken-windows-policing, training often involves teaching cops that they have to be aggressive and establish they're in charge. In other words, they're being trained to do exactly this shit.

In Wilson's case, he even got training in Israel, where martial law means civil rights don't even exist to be ignored.