A Friendly Correction for those Man-Haters who Delve to be Single

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

I think passing in that situation was totally defensible, if not the right specific play call, given one timeout and ~25 seconds. Any running play that doesn't get you in (and there is a chance of that greater than zero, even with Lynch) means they have to use their last timeout, and it means they have to throw on third down (or risk not getting a 4th down play).

Let's take a detour around the bullshit. Trying your best to avoid 20/20 hindsight, what play would you have called with Russell Wilson as your quarterback, Seattle's receivers, and Marshawn Lynch available in your backfield?

No one is arguing that handing the ball off would have been the best option for every team. But if you refuse to admit it was for Seattle, I'm not sure I believe you.

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Was the slant the best pass play call in that situation? Probably not, because in addition to the risk of interception there was some risk that he could have been tackled before breaking the plane, which makes it the same as a run. Play action with a keeper option has the same problem as a run (hi Coltrane). A fade has neither of those risks, although I'm not sure the receiver matchups for Seattle make that much better than just a spike.

What was the best play for Seattle in the situation they were in?

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

As for the Kearse and the helmet catch, both were ridiculous. And of course they both took skill and athleticism to make.

Uh, no. One catch was achieved by a receiver jumping high in the air, catching the ball while securing it on his helmut because a great defender was hanging on his arm trying to dislodge it, all while making sure the ball didn't hit the ground on his way to the ground. Ridiculously amazing catch? Yes. Ridiculously lucky catch? Not at all.

The other catch came when the ball that was tipped away by the defender landed directly in the receiver's hands after bouncing around on his leg. Did it take concentration? Yes, absolutely. Did it take skill and athleticism? No, not really.

TM

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Your chest all puffed out after your Adder burn? Sit back down, son.

If I were you, I wouldn’t want it known that $500 mattered this much. I’d be like, “Easy come, easy go.”

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Let's take a detour around the bullshit. Trying your best to avoid 20/20 hindsight, what play would you have called with Russell Wilson as your quarterback, Seattle's receivers, and Marshawn Lynch available in your backfield?

A pass play where Wilson has time in the pocket to throw it away if the receiver is not wide open.

Run (Lynch) on third down.

See what happens on 4th down - but just don't throw it to that sorry ass Crabtree.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

I think passing in that situation was totally defensible, if not the right specific play call, given one timeout and ~25 seconds. Any running play that doesn't get you in (and there is a chance of that greater than zero, even with Lynch) means they have to use their last timeout, and it means they have to throw on third down (or risk not getting a 4th down play).

Was the slant the best pass play call in that situation? Probably not, because in addition to the risk of interception there was some risk that he could have been tackled before breaking the plane, which makes it the same as a run. Play action with a keeper option has the same problem as a run (hi Coltrane). A fade has neither of those risks, although I'm not sure the receiver matchups for Seattle make that much better than just a spike.

As for the Kearse and the helmet catch, both were ridiculous. And of course they both took skill and athleticism to make.

People seem to be forgetting that this was supposed to be a pick play, but the other receiver got jammed at the line, so there was no traffic for Butler to get caught up in.

And even so, it was there:


And it took a great play by Butler to be able to break it up. A slight fraction of a second earlier and it's DPI.

I would not have made that call, but it's not as dumb as TM is making it out to be. Run on second down. Call timeout if you need to and you can always pass on third and fourth.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

If it takes two running plays for Lynch to get in. Like, I said, okay. If you want to be crazy (like Ty) and start arguing about the likelihood of Lynch fumbling on the last play of the Superbowl (like the numbers of short yardage fumbles mean anything in that situation when we all know he'll be holding it tighter than ever before), have at it.

What Burger said, but this makes as much sense as thinking that the odds of an interception in that situation are meaningless because of course it's the Super Bowl and Wilson is going to be careful and throw the ball to the back shoulder where the DB can't get it.

[eta] At the risk of stating the obvious, part of what Lynch so dangerous is that Wilson is in the backfield, and so other teams have to defend both pass and run.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

If I were you, I wouldn’t want it known that $500 mattered this much. I’d be like, “Easy come, easy go.”

Yes. You are correct. I am currently living on the subway and $500 gets me access for months!

I'm not sure why you think I think it matters so much. It was a colossally stupid decision. I find it amazing that anyone thinks it wasn't. Although, the only people I know who are making any kind of weak ass argument about it not being a dumbass bone-headed play call are Patriots fans. And that's because they think if they admit that it was indeed stupid, that that admission somehow means they shouldn't be considered Super Bowl Champs. I find this almost as dumb as the play call.

The fact that Burger or Ty are even having this conversation with me on this board is particularly perplexing since I have always said that the true determination of who the better team is is the outcome of the playoffs and championship game we set up to find out. The winner is, by definition, the better team. The outcome is determined based on which team makes the truly fantastic plays and avoids the truly stupid ones. Ty and Burger seem to think that because people focus on one dumb play that that means we think the Patriots don't deserve the win. I don't understand that. The Patriots making more excellent plays and fewer stupid or terrible plays means they are the better team. Period. Seattle's inability to match or exceed that means they are not as good.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

A pass play where Wilson has time in the pocket to throw it away if the receiver is not wide open.

Run (Lynch) on third down.

See what happens on 4th down - but just don't throw it to that sorry ass Crabtree.

I just don't understand this. I don't think a pass play is their best chance to score. I cannot see Lynch being denied on a run to win the Superbowl and I'm not even a Seattle fan.

And let's say he is denied. It's true that you've lost your timeout, but now the Patriots have no idea what you're doing on the next down because they'll have to think pass, but will need to hedge on the run because Seattle has Marshawn Lynch and how often is he denied 1 yard on consecutive plays?

TM

[Not Bob]

Because I love you all, I give you this ranking of all of Billy Joel's songs in order from New York Magazine.

I might quibble a bit with the order of the rankings, but cannot disagree that "New York State of Mind" and "Scenes From an Italian Restaurant" are great songs.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

People seem to be forgetting that this was supposed to be a pick play, but the other receiver got jammed at the line, so there was no traffic for Butler to get caught up in.

And even so, it was there:


And it took a great play by Butler to be able to break it up. A slight fraction of a second earlier and it's DPI.

I would not have made that call, but it's not as dumb as TM is making it out to be. Run on second down. Call timeout if you need to and you can always pass on third and fourth.

More awesomeness. Despite an overwhelming number of people calling it a tremendously stupid play call (including quite a few who have been in football their whole lives calling it the worst play in the history of the sport), we keep hearing, "Well, I wouldn't have made that call, but..."

Whatever.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

What Burger said, but this makes as much sense as thinking that the odds of an interception in that situation are meaningless because of course it's the Super Bowl and Wilson is going to be careful and throw the ball to the back shoulder where the DB can't get it.

No. It's not like saying that at all. Russell Wilson is not one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

[eta] At the risk of stating the obvious, part of what Lynch so dangerous is that Wilson is in the backfield, and so other teams have to defend both pass and run.

Ha ha ha. You're funny. "At the risk of stating the obvious..." Good one. You don't even understand that your own reply is telling us that it makes more sense to run Lynch in that situation because the Patriots "have to defend both pass and run."

But this is more effective:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/seattle-se...nto-beast-mode

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photo...e-bfeda54c2706

Dude is fucking monster.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

If I were you, I wouldn’t want it known that $500 mattered this much. I’d be like, “Easy come, easy go.”

Yeah you would, player. You know what I would have done if I won the $500? I would have wiped my ass with it and flushed it down the toilet. Then I would have taken another $500 and bought a really expensive bottle of super-player champagne, and I would have shaken it up, popped that cork on that motherfucker, and sprayed the whole bottle right down the same toilet. 'Cuz that's how real OG players roll. We flush money and expensive stuff right down the toilet. BOOYAH!

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

FWIW, that was Grantland, quoted in Slate. Carry on.

Looked like an article by two Slate writers. referencing Brian Burke. If it ain't Bill Barnwell (or Nate Silver), I ain't buying it.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I'm not sure why you think I think it matters so much. It was a colossally stupid decision. I find it amazing that anyone thinks it wasn't. Although, the only people I know who are making any kind of weak ass argument about it not being a dumbass bone-headed play call are Patriots fans. And that's because they think if they admit that it was indeed stupid, that that admission somehow means they shouldn't be considered Super Bowl Champs. I find this almost as dumb as the play call.

First, I think Carroll is covering for a call made by his offensive coordinator, which is classy of him.

Second, you could find people all over the internet yesterday arguing that it wasn't such a bad decision. I dunno, maybe they were all Pats fans, but I doubt it.

Third -- and this is not a reaction so much to you as to people like Tom Jackson after the game -- the way people are talking about that play call takes away from the players and the game. Wilson and Lockette didn't execute on that play, and Butler did. He made a hell of a play -- that wasn't foreordained. Brady played some great football to get the Pats the lead. Seattle made an awesome play call at the 2:02 mark to isolate Lynch on the lineback and get to midfield. Kearse's catch was stunning. Harping on the play call takes away from all of that, particularly in the way some people other than you put it.

Fourth, what people are saying is obviously hindsight bias.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

whoops

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

If I were you, I wouldn’t want it known that $500 mattered this much. I’d be like, “Easy come, easy go.”

Hey, as Joe Hallenbeck said in The Last Boy Scout:

"500 bucks is 500 bucks"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WliLm__D25Q