A Friendly Correction for those Man-Haters who Delve to be Single

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

You know, I try to keep from ranting and raving, and look what happens. You make me post. This is your fault.

I thought this year things might be different. I thought there is no way Krzyzewski is able to gain a significant advantage in fouls. But, no. Coach K owns the refs. Completely. Forget the obvious call that should have been reversed when the video clearly showed the ball hitting Winslow's hand last. It's really all about the foul calls with Duke. And getting into the bonus.

To be fair, Ryan was outcoached. And Duke played some great defense. But the number of absolute bullshit fouls that went Duke's way really made the difference in the game. Tyus Jones is Duke's next generation flopper. I don't understand why refs fall for his bullshit. In the championship game, he jumps sideways into defenders when shooting and never initiated contact that didn't wind up with him on the floor. He kicks his leg out on jump shots to try to draw contact. And he can't wait to fall down on defense. Yeah, he hit some great shots. But I don't remember him deserving to take one of the foul shots he took in the second half. And that's just Jones! Fucking Winslow threw his elbow into a stationary Hoosier's face and ended up on the line. Duke went to the line what, 16 times in the second half? They were in the bonus with more than 10 minutes to play in the second half and the double bonus with more than 7 minutes to play? I don't think Wisconsin even reached the bonus. And it's almost all the result of strategic falling down. It's a joke.

And let me tell you something. The fact that all of the announcers say shit like, "Coach K really knows how to work the refs to his advantage," and "Tyus Jones did a great job of selling that foul," is a huge part of the problem. If you're going to credit these assholes for gaming the system and shower praise on them for it, we'll be stuck with this garbage forever (or at least until Coach K takes that final flop). Hell, we have announcers talking about how Battier was one of the best defensive players ever based on the fact that he was the best at running under someone more athletic than he and falling down.

It's embarrassing.

TM

eta: I'm also still pissed off that Gus Johnson is not involved in any of the coverage. We are completely destroying an opportunity for a whole generation to experience the best game calling ever.

Because you're clearly not riled up enough, consider the statistics presented in this tweet:

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/st...69498149806081

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

I agreed completely. One factual development, however: The referees did not see the same camera shot the TV audience did the ball going off the Duke player. The other calls are inexcusable.

They weren't shown it because they're all in cahoots.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Because you're clearly not riled up enough, consider the statistics presented in this tweet:

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/st...69498149806081

You're killing me.

TM

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

You know, I try to keep from ranting and raving, and look what happens. You make me post. This is your fault.

I thought this year things might be different. I thought there is no way Krzyzewski is able to gain a significant advantage in fouls. But, no. Coach K owns the refs. Completely. Forget the obvious call that should have been reversed when the video clearly showed the ball hitting Winslow's hand last. It's really all about the foul calls with Duke. And getting into the bonus.

To be fair, Ryan was outcoached. And Duke played some great defense. But the number of absolute bullshit fouls that went Duke's way really made the difference in the game. Tyus Jones is Duke's next generation flopper. I don't understand why refs fall for his bullshit. In the championship game, he jumps sideways into defenders when shooting and never initiated contact that didn't wind up with him on the floor. He kicks his leg out on jump shots to try to draw contact. And he can't wait to fall down on defense. Yeah, he hit some great shots. But I don't remember him deserving to take one of the foul shots he took in the second half. And that's just Jones! Fucking Winslow threw his elbow into a stationary Hoosier's face and ended up on the line. Duke went to the line what, 16 times in the second half? They were in the bonus with more than 10 minutes to play in the second half and the double bonus with more than 7 minutes to play? I don't think Wisconsin even reached the bonus. And it's almost all the result of strategic falling down. It's a joke.

And let me tell you something. The fact that all of the announcers say shit like, "Coach K really knows how to work the refs to his advantage," and "Tyus Jones did a great job of selling that foul," is a huge part of the problem. If you're going to credit these assholes for gaming the system and shower praise on them for it, we'll be stuck with this garbage forever (or at least until Coach K takes that final flop). Hell, we have announcers talking about how Battier was one of the best defensive players ever based on the fact that he was the best at running under someone more athletic than he and falling down.

It's embarrassing.

TM

eta: I'm also still pissed off that Gus Johnson is not involved in any of the coverage. We are completely destroying an opportunity for a whole generation to experience the best game calling ever.

This, plus the fact that people relentlessly criticize Calipari, who is undeniably an asshole, for recruiting one-and-done players -- but no no one cares that K does the exact same thing.

ETA: It also sucks when the best team doesn't win the tournament AND said winning team is a perennial powerhouse. I'm fine when the best team doesn't win and it's a team that no one expected to win. Duke lost to Notre Dame - twice. The two best teams in the tournament were Kentucky and Wisconsin.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

You know, I try to keep from ranting and raving, and look what happens. You make me post. This is your fault.

I thought this year things might be different. I thought there is no way Krzyzewski is able to gain a significant advantage in fouls. But, no. Coach K owns the refs.

Usually Bo Ryan does too.

Forget the obvious call that should have been reversed when the video clearly showed the ball hitting Winslow's hand last.

Completely unscientifically, reviewing those plays seems to cost time but do nothing to increase accuracy (i.e., several times this year I've watched the video and not understood the conclusion reached). Maybe they should stop reviewing them.

This was a particularly interesting one, though, as there was simply no way to make that call without the benefits of super slow motion. And even then, there was no visible change in the flight path or rotation of the ball.

But when you see the fingers move in reaction to the ball, I don't know how you still get it wrong.

It's really all about the foul calls with Duke. And getting into the bonus.

Wisconsin had 2 fouls at the half.

Which is not atypical for them, because Bo Ryan coaches his players to get their licks in on screens and with the body, which officials these days tend to overlook.

But the "fun" thing about college officiating is something as unbalanced as only 2 fouls in a half is going to get reversed in the second half. Neither result is "right" but that's compromise we get.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

This, plus the fact that people relentlessly criticize Calipari, who is undeniably an asshole, for recruiting one-and-done players -- but no no one cares that K does the exact same thing.

I guess I think the criticism of Calipari is mostly veiled (or not so) implication that there is cheating going on.

An appropriate dose of cynicism should suggest that there probably is at Duke too, but Coach K does not have Calipari's track record on that front.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Adder

I guess I think the criticism of Calipari is mostly veiled (or not so) implication that there is cheating going on.

An appropriate dose of cynicism should suggest that there probably is at Duke too, but Coach K does not have Calipari's track record on that front.

Please don't make me defend Calipari. I can, but I won't.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by Adder

I guess I think the criticism of Calipari is mostly veiled (or not so) implication that there is cheating going on.

An appropriate dose of cynicism should suggest that there probably is at Duke too, but Coach K does not have Calipari's track record on that front.

The criticism of Calipari is directing frustration with the disease at the symptom. One and done makes college basketball even more of a joke than college football, in terms of any purported amateurism of and educational component for the student-ath-uhl-ete.

Kentucky isn't cheating - it's playing within the rules. Except for maybe the cash envelopes showing up during recruiting. I doubt these guys go to more than the bare minimum number of classes in the Fall, probably stop going in the Spring semester about February, and probably have withdrawn by now. That's a joke - at least for a sport that calls itself "college" basketball. But the fix is the current rule, and more important the NBA draft restrictions and unwillingness of the league to set up a genuine minor league system.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

This, plus the fact that people relentlessly criticize Calipari, who is undeniably an asshole, for recruiting one-and-done players -- but no no one cares that K does the exact same thing.

He does now because he goes out in the first round when he doesn't.

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

ETA: It also sucks when the best team doesn't win the tournament AND said winning team is a perennial powerhouse. I'm fine when the best team doesn't win and it's a team that no one expected to win. Duke lost to Notre Dame - twice. The two best teams in the tournament were Kentucky and Wisconsin.

My usual argument is that the best team is the one that wins. However, Duke had a cakewalk to the championship and then benefited (as usual) from truly awful and one-sided refereeing.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

This, plus the fact that people relentlessly criticize Calipari, who is undeniably an asshole, for recruiting one-and-done players -- but no no one cares that K does the exact same thing.

ESPN was just lauding K the other day for adjusting to a one-and-done world. Which is like what TM was saying about lauding him for teaching his players to draw fouls. When others do it, it's dirty. When he does it, you are supposed to admire the way he doesn't get the mud on his priestly robes.

eta: I actually have a lot of respect for K, as I've said before, but I can't stand the sycophancy and hagiography of the media toward the top college coaches.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

ESPN was just lauding K the other day for adjusting to a one-and-done world. Which is like what TM was saying about lauding him for teaching his players to draw fouls. When others do it, it's dirty. When he does it, you are supposed to admire the way he doesn't get the mud on his priestly robes.

eta: I actually have a lot of respect for K, as I've said before, but I can't stand the sycophancy and hagiography of the media toward the top college coaches.

I don't know what y'all are talking about, but I like the Red Sox' chances this year.

In preparation for that season, how do you all feel about possessives that end in x? Is dropping the "s" too retro?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

Wisconsin had 2 fouls at the half.

Which is not atypical for them, because Bo Ryan coaches his players to get their licks in on screens and with the body, which officials these days tend to overlook.

But the "fun" thing about college officiating is something as unbalanced as only 2 fouls in a half is going to get reversed in the second half. Neither result is "right" but that's compromise we get.

And that is absolutely ridiculous.

There were not a bunch of missed calls in the first half. I hate Duke, but anyone who has ever watched a game with me knows that I comment on bullshit calls and missed calls on both sides.

I cannot stress enough that the game changed completely based on the fact that Duke was in the penalty with more than half of the second half to play and in the double penalty with fucking 7 minutes left in the game. That is absolutely outrageous given the fact that they were securing those fouls by actively trying to run into people with the intention of falling down.

https://vine.co/v/eBbpZFVhawH

https://vine.co/v/eBbDpwI9jxI

This article does a fairly good job of summing it up (and it's where I got those vines:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/f...aa-tournament/

TM

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

And that is absolutely ridiculous.

There were not a bunch of missed calls in the first half. I hate Duke, but anyone who has ever watched a game with me knows that I comment on bullshit calls and missed calls on both sides.

I cannot stress enough that the game changed completely based on the fact that Duke was in the penalty with more than half of the second half to play and in the double penalty with fucking 7 minutes left in the game. That is absolutely outrageous given the fact that they were securing those fouls by actively trying to run into people with the intention of falling down.

https://vine.co/v/eBbpZFVhawH

https://vine.co/v/eBbDpwI9jxI

This article does a fairly good job of summing it up (and it's where I got those vines:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/f...aa-tournament/

TM

We would have gotten our ass kicking anyway, but we had 28 fouls. They had 18. We were too thin this year to lose any of our better players for the length of time we did.

Izzo said something like "I guess I need to start recruiting players that like to drive into people."

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

We would have gotten our ass kicking anyway, but we had 28 fouls. They had 18. We were too thin this year to lose any of our better players for the length of time we did.

Izzo said something like "I guess I need to start recruiting players that like to drive into people."

It really is a problem. And Coach K is a good enough Xs & Os coach to not have to teach it. It's not fun to watch either. I don't know why it's tolerated.

By the way, the Winslow elbow that resulted in a blocking call is here: http://uproxx.com/sports/2015/04/duk...-championship/

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

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TM