A Friendly Correction for those Man-Haters who Delve to be Single

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Except for maybe the cash envelopes showing up during recruiting.

That sure sounds like cheating.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

That sure sounds like cheating.

Like you've never accepted a cash envelope.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

And that is absolutely ridiculous.

There were not a bunch of missed calls in the first half. I hate Duke, but anyone who has ever watched a game with me knows that I comment on bullshit calls and missed calls on both sides.

I cannot stress enough that the game changed completely based on the fact that Duke was in the penalty with more than half of the second half to play and in the double penalty with fucking 7 minutes left in the game. That is absolutely outrageous given the fact that they were securing those fouls by actively trying to run into people with the intention of falling down.

https://vine.co/v/eBbpZFVhawH

https://vine.co/v/eBbDpwI9jxI

This article does a fairly good job of summing it up (and it's where I got those vines:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/f...aa-tournament/

TM

I might get more worked up had exactly the same scenario not played out in 4-5 Gopher basketball games this year, with one half featuring no whistles and another featuring far too many.

Aside from the out of bounds that weirdly wasn't overturned on replay, I did not find the officiating particularly remarkable here. And I bitch about officiating all. the. time. (Because they all suck)

ETA: Oh, and as to those two plays. The call on the first one was correct. The defender was not in defensive position, much less set. The rule may suck, but the application of it there was right. That we stop and consider whether there should be a flagrant foul on a play that correctly was not a common foul is yet another absurdity.

The second is a shitty flop that shouldn't get called, but you know, that's college basketball. It's hardly limited to Duke.

EATA: Your rage over Duke is basically how I feel about Wisconsin. They go all season not getting called for fouls, not because they don't foul but because it's Bo and because they are smart about the contact they initiate. It's pretty hard for me to get worked up when the shoe winds up on the other foot.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Like you've never accepted a cash envelope.

I'm willing to learn.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

I might get more worked up had exactly the same scenario not played out in 4-5 Gopher basketball games this year, with one half featuring no whistles and another featuring far too many.

Why? Why does crappy reffing in a Gopher game make it okay in the NCAA championship? Why, Adder. Why?

Originally Posted by Adder

Aside from the out of bounds that weirdly wasn't overturned on replay, I did not find the officiating particularly remarkable here. And I bitch about officiating all. the. time. (Because they all suck)

Couldn't disagree more.

Originally Posted by Adder

ETA: Oh, and as to those two plays. The call on the first one was correct. The defender was not in defensive position, much less set. The rule may suck, but the application of it there was right.

You are absolutely, positively wrong. He most certainly was in a defensive position. He was trailing the play and Jones had to jump sideways and a bit backwards in order to draw the contact. I wish I could meet up with you for pick-up to show you exactly how this works. I've done it to dirty players in retaliation and it is 100% an offensive foul and 0% a defensive foul.

Originally Posted by Adder

That we stop and consider whether there should be a flagrant foul on a play that [in]correctly was not a common foul is yet another absurdity.

Agreed (as revised).

Originally Posted by Adder

The second is a shitty flop that shouldn't get called, but you know, that's college basketball. It's hardly limited to Duke.

Pulling this example of yet another Duke flop out of the context of the entire conversation in which my point is that Duke flops more than any team that has ever flopped before and seems to capitalize on it to great success, by telling me that players flop in college, is just stupid. If you don't think Duke does it more, fine. But don't intentionally avoid the point.

Originally Posted by Adder

EATA: Your rage over Duke is basically how I feel about Wisconsin. They go all season not getting called for fouls, not because they don't foul but because it's Bo and because they are smart about the contact they initiate. It's pretty hard for me to get worked up when the shoe winds up on the other foot.

I don't watch enough Big Ten basketball to know whether this is true. But I'll take your word for it.

To be fair to me. I hate it all the time. UNC flops. Lebron flops like a champ. Blake Griffin flops his ass off. Chris Paul is on the Allstate Flopping Five. It's a disgrace. I think it absolutely ruins the game. But Duke flops more than any other team I've ever watched play basketball. It is a strategic approach instituted and taught by Coach K who has gained a real advantage from it.

TM

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by Adder

That sure sounds like cheating.

Except that's not what people have accused Calipari of so far as I can tell. (Although it is remarkable that, having been caught at Memphis and UMass there hasn't been a scandal yet at Kentucky)

Besides, given the North Carolina fake classes scandal remains under a massive rug, it seems no one even cares about the pretense of academic integrity in college basketball.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

He was trailing the play and Jones had to jump sideways and a bit backwards in order to draw the contact.

Yup. This is college basketball. That call goes against the offensive player zero out of a hundred times. Unless the defender is stationary with arms vertical, it's not going to be an offensive foul.

If you don't think Duke does it more, fine. But don't intentionally avoid the point.

I think they do it as much as anyone else. More? Perhaps. But (1) the story of the second half of that game was not a ton of Duke flops and (2) lots of programs flop a lot.

I dislike it as well and wish that the NCAA (and all other leagues) would learn to not make those calls. But we have to be going on two decades of this discussion.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Except that's not what people have accused Calipari of so far as I can tell.

Who are these people? I don't think members of the media without actual evidence can say that's happening. My point is they likely suspect that things like that are happening and thus criticize him more for things they actually have evidence of.

But that's conjecture on my part, because I assume everyone on the planet believes his program is likely cheating in ways very similar to his past programs.

(Although it is remarkable that, having been caught at Memphis and UMass there hasn't been a scandal yet at Kentucky)

You have to believe it's coming though, right?

Besides, given the North Carolina fake classes scandal remains under a massive rug, it seems no one even cares about the pretense of academic integrity in college basketball.

Unless it's at a non-power program.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Except that's not what people have accused Calipari of so far as I can tell. (Although it is remarkable that, having been caught at Memphis and UMass there hasn't been a scandal yet at Kentucky)

Was he caught at those two places? I find it hard to blame him for Rose's invalidated standardized test score and Camby taking money from a booster.

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Besides, given the North Carolina fake classes scandal remains under a massive rug, it seems no one even cares about the pretense of academic integrity in college basketball.

That's because there never was any to begin with.

TM

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Blake Griffin flops his ass off. Chris Paul is on the Allstate Flopping Five. It's a disgrace.
TM

Just wanted to see this as its own post. I hate the fucking Clippers. They should be a fun team to watch but the whining and flopping ruins it. Doc would flop on the sideline if he thought it would get him anywhere.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

Yup. This is college basketball. That call goes against the offensive player zero out of a hundred times. Unless the defender is stationary with arms vertical, it's not going to be an offensive foul.

Again, that is not true. You do not have to be motionless for an offensive foul to be called on the player you're guarding. You've gone from saying it was the correct call to arguing that it won't be called. It is absolutely an offensive foul. If it weren't, defensive players would have to learn how to dodge the players they're guarding at all times to avoid fouling out. If you were arguing that it should have been a no-call, I would at least think you kind of understand what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Adder

I think they do it as much as anyone else. More? Perhaps. But (1) the story of the second half of that game was not a ton of Duke flops and (2) lots of programs flop a lot.

Whatever. I'm going to put this in the category of topics I don't really need to interact with you on. I simply don't respect your opinion. And it's not because it doesn't match mine.

Originally Posted by Adder

I dislike it as well and wish that the NCAA (and all other leagues) would learn to not make those calls. But we have to be going on two decades of this discussion.

Great point. I'll be talking about it in 2025 if Duke benefits the way they did in this tourney (and the season, generally) again.

I assume you'll stop wanting to discuss [income inequality/racism/conservative morons/insert any topic discussed on this or the politics board on any given day] any minute now too?

TM

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Was he caught at those two places? I find it hard to blame him for Rose's invalidated standardized test score and Camby taking money from a booster.

Fair point - he wasn't found responsible. Yet I'm sufficiently skeptical of the whole enterprise to think he knew nothing about these activities, unless he consciously avoided the knowledge. There's a lot of looking the other way in college sports.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Again, that is not true. You do not have to be motionless for an offensive foul to be called on the player you're guarding. You've gone from saying it was the correct call to arguing that it won't be called.

Nope, but you're doing a good job of arguing. The call was correct according to the way college basketball is officiated. I started down the rule book rabbit hole to demonstrate that the practice matches the rule, but that thing is a total mess.

And yeah, if the offensive player throws an elbow or pushes off exceptionally blatantly (but not hooks, that never gets called), then the offensive player can sometimes get a whistle while a defender is moving. But a guy going up to shoot is not going to get called for contacting a defender who is going up for a block. Doesn't happen. Isn't how the college rules work in practice.

I'm getting the strong sense that you think the college rules should be more like the NBA rules. Maybe so, but that doesn't change the fact that this play was not an offensive foul in college ball.

If it weren't defensive players would have to learn how to dodge the players they're guarding at all times to avoid following out.

Nope. If the defender is stationary and vertical, it's generally a no-call. If the defender is not, it's going to be on the defender absent an thrown elbow or a blatant push off. This was neither.

Great point. I'll be talking about it in 2025 if Duke benefits the way they did in this tourney (and the season, generally) again.

Again, I have the same type of frustration about the way Wisconsin plays the game - packing the lane, slowing the pace, a lot of cheap contact of the type that doesn't get called - it's frustrating and boring and makes things less fun to watch.

But it's also smart, helps them win and within the rules until there's a consensus to change them. Same with flopping. It's annoying, but how can you be outraged or say it's unfair? The other guys can copy them if they want.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Resume pro-tip: If you are going to list areas of specialization at the top of your resume, cut the list down from twenty.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Resume pro-tip: If you are going to list areas of specialization at the top of your resume, cut the list down from twenty.

Explain that to GGG about what he claims on PB?