I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

The problem is actually not the schools. The schools are already being asked to do too much that is not related to educating kids. If kids came to school ready to learn, that alone would be a huge improvement.

Agreed!

it takes parents with standards and expectations who give a crap about their kids.

Okay, but now accept that there will always be parents, maybe even lots of them, who don't do that. What do you do?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

But I have yet to hear of any realistic method of achieving that.

What if we took some of the massive amount of money we spend on policing and prosecuting a drug war, and on maintaining the carceral state, and instead spent some of it on early interventions with at risk kids. Stuff like feeding and babysitting and the like.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Adder

What if we took some of the massive amount of money we spend on policing and prosecuting a drug war, and on maintaining the carceral state, and instead spent some of it on early interventions with at risk kids. Stuff like feeding and babysitting and the like.

I'd rather see the money returned to the parents through a negative income tax so they could afford to do their own feed and babysitting and stuff like that. We can keep the jail cells for parents who don't adequately feeed and babysit because they have more fun drinking or doing crack or watching Maury Povich.

[SEC_Chick]

Originally Posted by Adder

Okay, but now accept that there will always be parents, maybe even lots of them, who don't do that. What do you do?

That's the hard part. My mother is a Ph.D. in early childhood development, and for a time when I was young she taught parenting classes in low-income areas, mainly to people who had received court orders or referrals from social services to attend, auditing Head Start programs, etc.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

What if we took some of the massive amount of money we spend on policing and prosecuting a drug war, and on maintaining the carceral state, and instead spent some of it on early interventions with at risk kids. Stuff like feeding and babysitting and the like.

What if we made the sky green and plant cotton candy trees all around?

50% of Detroit school students drop out and you lot are blabbing nonsense. Why don't you go out and try to help some kids? Have any of you big brothered? Why don't YOU check into working with kids, say a "be a lawyer" club, or try to start some group to get babysitting options (why would that help BTW?) or start some way to get food to kids who need it?

Nah, let's make more posts! 50% of the Detroit school kids enter life without a hs education, but the ability to have kids. The numbers are probably bad in poor rural too, but no, let's not do something to actually help a few kids. Posts on lawtalkers are the better way to go.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

I'd rather see the money returned to the parents through a negative income tax so they could afford to do their own feed and babysitting and stuff like that. We can keep the jail cells for parents who don't adequately feeed and babysit because they have more fun drinking or doing crack or watching Maury Povich.

You have no sense of what you are talking about. You have no idea of the problem.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

I'd rather see the money returned to the parents through a negative income tax so they could afford to do their own feed and babysitting and stuff like that.

Hm. On the one hand, I do think there's some reason to believe that if people simply have resources, they will make "better" choices than we typically expect.

On the other hand, I think there's a case for direct intervention in that people may be simply unaware of the choices they have.

Maybe the answer is both?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Perhaps it is my conservative news media bias showing, but are there studies that show that money improves outcomes? I am aware of many failures, but am receptive to stories of success.

We both can Google for studies, but I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that money tends to improve outcomes. There certainly are school districts that can waste funds, but those are edge cases. Everyone thinks that having more teachers per student improves outcomes, controlling for other factors. Everyone thinks that paying teachers more money will attract better teachers, controlling for other factors. Or are markets in education somehow immune from the principles of basic economics that apply elsewhere?

I went to a public school that was pretty highly subsidized by the federal government at the time, due to special circumstances, and had many highly educated teachers with advanced degrees from Ivies (mainly because they had social science degrees and were otherwise unemployable in the town), but for many reasons my personal experience with public education is not likely to be replicated anywhere else.

I went to a private school before high school, and then switched to a public school. I went to college with classmates from the private school, and didn't feel that my years in public school disadvantaged me in any way. My kids go to public schools which are fine. I've been lucky with public schools because I've lived in expensive neighborhoods, relatively speaking. A big part of the reason those neighborhoods are desirable is that the public schools are better, and part of the reason they're better is that most education is locally funded. Poor people get crappy schools and rich people get great schools. Rich people want it that way, because they want to buy advantages for their children. For that reason, rich people and the politicians elected by them will stand in the way of anything the government might do that would actually level the playing field, not least to protect their investments in their houses.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

What if we made the sky green and plant cotton candy trees all around?

I didn't say it was likely, and I was mostly riffing off of wonk's line about policing, babysitting and feeding happening in schools.

Although I do think the end of the drug war is no longer unimaginable, even if it's not yet near.

50% of Detroit school students drop out and you lot are blabbing nonsense. Why don't you go out and try to help some kids? Have any of you big brothered? Why don't YOU check into working with kids, say a "be a lawyer" club, or try to start some group to get babysitting options (why would that help BTW?) or start some way to get food to kids who need it?

I should be more involved, but the firm is quite proud of it's relationship with a local North Minneapolis elementary school.

But you know this is a BS tactic, right?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

I didn't say it was likely, and I was mostly riffing off of wonk's line about policing, babysitting and feeding happening in schools.

Although I do think the end of the drug war is no longer unimaginable, even if it's not yet near.



I should be more involved, but the firm is quite proud of it's relationship with a local North Minneapolis elementary school.

But you know this is a BS tactic, right?

It is parents and home life, and the problem is that the 50% drop out rate has been going on for generations.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

It is parents and home life

Which is why we were talking about programs that could help address parents and home life.

I, half jokingly, suggested we could find money to fund Head Start and other early intervention programs if we ended the drug war.

Wonk said he'd rather give the drug war savings directly to families.

SEC Chick said her mom knows a heck of a lot more about this than any of us.

I think we do a poor job of preparing people for parenthood. I think even if we did a better job, there will always be a lot of poorly prepared parents (being prepared obviously negatively correlates with becoming a parent). I think we could do a lot more - parenting class, child care, basic financial/nutritional/necessity support, Head Start, other early childhood interventions that I can't name off the top of my head - if we had funding for it.

It won't fix it all, but I think those are the things we can and should do to start to chip away at the 50%.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

What if we made the sky green and plant cotton candy trees all around?

Aye! Now what do we need to do to get this thing off the ground?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

So NAMBLA will neither confirm nor deny the Trump rumors.

It is good to see someone had a little bit of fun with a Trump erection, though.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

I'd rather see the money returned to the parents through a negative income tax so they could afford to do their own feed and babysitting and stuff like that. We can keep the jail cells for parents who don't adequately feeed and babysit because they have more fun drinking or doing crack or watching Maury Povich.

Nate Silver's moved Georgia to 50.5% likely to go to Trump.

Come on, guy! Get that Liberal Redneck Media going and convert some voters!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

Which is why we were talking about programs that could help address parents and home life.

I, half jokingly, suggested we could find money to fund Head Start and other early intervention programs if we ended the drug war.

Wonk said he'd rather give the drug war savings directly to families.

SEC Chick said her mom knows a heck of a lot more about this than any of us.

I think we do a poor job of preparing people for parenthood. I think even if we did a better job, there will always be a lot of poorly prepared parents (being prepared obviously negatively correlates with becoming a parent). I think we could do a lot more - parenting class, child care, basic financial/nutritional/necessity support, Head Start, other early childhood interventions that I can't name off the top of my head - if we had funding for it.

It won't fix it all, but I think those are the things we can and should do to start to chip away at the 50%.

We can make everyone happy here.

End the drug war, give the drugs to SEC, she'll be happy.

Let the money go to the families, so Wonk is happy.

While SEC is on the drugs and not paying attention, raise her taxes, you'll be happy.

I solve all your problems.