I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

Apropos of nothing, watching Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy on Netflix is an excellent idea.

Upon reflection, having previously read the book, I should have realized that it was a Not Great idea. I mean, the whole premise of TTSS is that there's a high-level mole working for the Russians against his country to subvert freedom and democracy and all. I blame the second Manhattan for my mistake.

It's a very good movie, though. Gary Oldman was amazing as George Smiley.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

But the exit polling shows that people who hated both candidates broke for Trump. They disliked her more. [ETA: keep this in mind as you malign the PA Gary Johnson voters. ]And a lot of those people were women, and I think you'd have a hard case to show that those women hate all women.

So much of the hatred of Hillary Clinton has sexist roots, going back to her time in Arkansas and as First Lady. So saying women wouldn't have hated another woman candidate is unverifiable. Hillary had baggage. I don't dispute that (despite my strong admiration of her). I just no longer have faith that our country will in fact be willing to elect ANY qualified female candidate to be President. Do I think sexism was in play when people walked in a voted yesterday (including old 1990s era sexism along with our more modern, still thriving sexism)? HELL YES, I do.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by notcasesensitive

So much of the hatred of Hillary Clinton has sexist roots, going back to her time in Arkansas and as First Lady. So saying women wouldn't have hated another woman candidate is unverifiable. Hillary had baggage. I don't dispute that (despite my strong admiration of her). I just no longer have faith that our country will in fact be willing to elect ANY qualified female candidate to be President. Do I think sexism was in play when people walked in a voted yesterday (including old 1990s era sexism along with our more modern, still thriving sexism)? HELL YES, I do.

I've voted 10 times so far. 5 D 5 R. But in fact 7 times I voted against the other guy (once against Palin, so "guy" here is gender neutral). I always think of swing voters as deciding most elections, and I always think we mostly are voting against one of two candidates.

I think Hillary's gender was a positive for me, and I must say I got a little bit tired of people telling the world if you don't see how perfect Hillary is, you are simply sexist. That said, I cannot fathom how anyone could pick Trump as the lesser of two evils. Sexism had to play some role if you get to that decision? But who knows, I cannot imagine getting to that decision.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Keep telling yourself that. All 140,000 dumbass Gary Johnson voters in PA can tell themselves that bullshit before bed every night for the next 40 years.

"It wasn't just me. There are lots of fucking stooges just like me here in PA. Ah. I feel much better now."

TM

They were just scared to nut up and make a decision.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Don't be a tool.

Trump gets the same. I'd do it myself, but PJ O'Rourke did it better:

"Also typical of modern Americans is Trump’s bad taste. True, he doesn’t dress the way the rest of us do—like a nine-year-old in twee T-shirt, bulbous shorts, boob shoes, and league-skunked sports team cap. And Trump doesn’t weigh 300 pounds or have multiple piercings or visible ink. He puts his own individual stamp on gaucherie. And we like it. We’re a country that cherishes being individuals as much as we cherish being gauche.

Trump’s suits have a cut and sheen as if they came from the trunk sale of a visiting Bombay tailor staying in a cheap hotel in Trump’s native Queens and taking a nip between fittings. Trump wears neckties in Outer Borough colors. And, Donald, the end of your necktie belongs up around your belt buckle, not between your knees and your nuts. Trump’s haircut makes Kim Jong Un laugh."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...s-america.html

I'm going to insult hers and Trump's appearance, demeanor, etc., as are a whole lot of people here, during this cycle. They choose to look and act the way they do and run for President. It's all fair game.

Similarly, you can choose whether to be an officious commentary policeman for potential cultural slights. Or, you can choose not to be insipid.

Last night, as a WSJ reporter walked out of Trump Tower through the crowds gathered, she had two different men approach her, get her face, and tell her she better watch out, they were going to grab her pussy.

Is that what you call a cultural slight?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by notcasesensitive

So much of the hatred of Hillary Clinton has sexist roots, going back to her time in Arkansas and as First Lady. So saying women wouldn't have hated another woman candidate is unverifiable. Hillary had baggage. I don't dispute that (despite my strong admiration of her). I just no longer have faith that our country will in fact be willing to elect ANY qualified female candidate to be President. Do I think sexism was in play when people walked in a voted yesterday (including old 1990s era sexism along with our more modern, still thriving sexism)? HELL YES, I do.

Same. Was it 1. "Anyone But Clinton" or was it 2. misogyny? Many trumpers say 1 but next rodeo I aint taken that chance if I am the Dems.

[soup sandwich]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I've voted 10 times so far. 5 D 5 R. But in fact 7 times I voted against the other guy (once against Palin, so "guy" here is gender neutral). I always think of swing voters as deciding most elections, and I always think we mostly are voting against one of two candidates.

I think Hillary's gender was a positive for me, and I must say I got a little bit tired of people telling the world if you don't see how perfect Hillary is, you are simply sexist. That said, I cannot fathom how anyone could pick Trump as the lesser of two evils. Sexism had to play some role if you get to that decision? But who knows, I cannot imagine getting to that decision.

2, sort of. I've voted 5 D and 3 R in my life. Voted against Trump, Palin, and Kerry.

Sexism has a part, but I do think there is more at play here. Those Rust Belt numbers are sending the "we've been left behind" message. The other message is "we are tired of you calling us all stupid and telling us what is good for us".

I'm not really sympathetic to either message. If you've been left behind, it's your own damn fault for expecting to work in the same factory/mine as your father and live in the same neighborhood as your parents did. If the jobs left town, why didn't you leave, too? What does it say about your skill level that your job can be so easily moved out of the country?

And as TM noted, the second message is just hypocritical.

I'm disappointed and adrift today because of the outcome. The last time I felt this way? The OJ verdict.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Which is another way of saying this was a "whitelash" at Democratic identity politics that ignored/excluded/offended blue collar middle class whites in supposedly solid Democratic states for decades all wrapped up in a life-long, grasping, super-slippery, Washington political insider. The Dems can also congratulate themselves.

Are you serious? Democrats ignored/excluded/offended blue collar middle class whites more than Republicans? Free trade isn't an idea espoused by Democrats. Union busting isn't a Democratic value. Cutting taxes for the rich while pretending it will create jobs and benefit working class people isn't a Democratic principle. Fighting investment in job-creating and desperately needed infrastructure projects was not a part of the Democrat approach. Permitting companies to take jobs overseas while protecting that income from taxation is something all politicians permitted.

If you're talking about pretend issues like reverse racism and forced gay cake-selling, then yeah. They were completely ignored and excluded. But if all it takes is the siren song of a race-baiting bullshit artist who has spent his life shitting on the very people who voted for him in overwhelming numbers, the conclusion you drew above just doesn't make any sense.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

And a lot of those people were women, and I think you'd have a hard case to show that those women hate all women.

I'm sorry, why?

I don't think these people are all racist and hate women.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news...us-presidency/

They don't think those things to themselves, but they are afraid that things are changing - in a way that helps women and people of color and Muslims - and they want that stopped. That's still racist and misogynistic.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I've voted 10 times so far. 5 D 5 R. But in fact 7 times I voted against the other guy (once against Palin, so "guy" here is gender neutral). I always think of swing voters as deciding most elections, and I always think we mostly are voting against one of two candidates.

You know that swing voters largely don't exist, right? And the elections are primarily won or lost by changes in the composition of the electorate (ie, which voters show up)?

But hey, that means you get to feel as special as SEC! You're both rarities.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Are you serious? Democrats ignored/excluded/offended blue collar middle class whites more than Republicans? Free trade isn't an idea espoused by Democrats. Union busting isn't a Democratic value. Cutting taxes for the rich while pretending it will create jobs and benefit working class people isn't a Democratic principle. Fighting investment in job-creating and desperately needed infrastructure projects was not a part of the Democrat approach. Permitting companies to take jobs overseas while protecting that income from taxation is something all politicians permitted.

If you're talking about pretend issues like reverse racism and forced gay cake-selling, then yeah. They were completely ignored and excluded. But if all it takes is the siren song of a race-baiting bullshit artist who has spent his life shitting on the very people who voted for him in overwhelming numbers, the conclusion you drew above just doesn't make any sense.

TM

I'm stealing this for a discussion on a different forum.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Are you serious? Democrats ignored/excluded/offended blue collar middle class whites more than Republicans? Free trade isn't an idea espoused by Democrats. Union busting isn't a Democratic value. Cutting taxes for the rich while pretending it will create jobs and benefit working class people isn't a Democratic principle. Fighting investment in job-creating and desperately needed infrastructure projects was not a part of the Democrat approach. Permitting companies to take jobs overseas while protecting that income from taxation is something all politicians permitted.

If you're talking about pretend issues like reverse racism and forced gay cake-selling, then yeah. They were completely ignored and excluded. But if all it takes is the siren song of a race-baiting bullshit artist who has spent his life shitting on the very people who voted for him in overwhelming numbers, the conclusion you drew above just doesn't make any sense.

TM

I think Eugene Volokh has your proxy - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ican-politics/

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Are you serious? Democrats ignored/excluded/offended blue collar middle class whites more than Republicans? Free trade isn't an idea espoused by Democrats. Union busting isn't a Democratic value. Cutting taxes for the rich while pretending it will create jobs and benefit working class people isn't a Democratic principle. Fighting investment in job-creating and desperately needed infrastructure projects was not a part of the Democrat approach. Permitting companies to take jobs overseas while protecting that income from taxation is something all politicians permitted.

Or:

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

You know that swing voters largely don't exist, right?

Umm, what?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

I think Eugene Volokh has your proxy - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ican-politics/

I see the title, but there is nothing under it. Is that the joke or were you actually trying to offer some substance instead of being obtusely provocative for once?

TM