I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I was trying to emphasize my view that the pure politics and classism are the most significant of the three elements you cite above. I'm exposed to many flyoverland types on a regular basis and it's rare to hear pure hatred for non-whites. The gripes tend to focus most on dumb beliefs that immigrants are taking jobs, and getting disproportionate benefits.

I'm not saying true white supremacists aren't part of the mix. Thankfully, I'm not exposed to much of that. The racism I see is the polite and hidden forms of it.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'll admit, I've had a problem with the concept of institutional racism. I've applied a more rigid definition that if a thing isn't racist by design and intent, it isn't racist.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I think there's an argument of degree here. It needs to be acknowledged, as you did above, that there are three - probably actually more - elements of racism at work in voter suppression. There's classism, racial hatred, and pure politics behind it. Yes, the impact is racist. But I think one of the things that causes causes white resistance to a discussion of voter suppression is that when people bluntly allege "racism," those accusers don't explain it as you have here. "Racist impact" or "result" might be the best way to put it.

Okay, I think we've taken this conversation as far as we can. I appreciate the back-and-forth.

I will say this: It is absolutely infuriating that it is up to minorities to figure out the best way to point out racist shit they experience to fragile white people. White people do racist shit (whether it's intentionally racist or whether it is the more "polite" type of racism--whatever that means) that results in serious problems and minorities have to massage the message in such a way that white people don't feel like they're being accused of being racist for them to even listen. That shit is absolutely infuriating. Especially when we are all trying to figure out the best way to tackle the problems facing uneducated, ignorant, white people who live in areas of the country with dying industries. We need to understand them and cater to them and help them, while they point at blacks and Mexicans and Muslims and gays and accuse us of causing their problems.

TM