I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Sometimes reading this board is even creepier than that Reddit where everyone refers to Trump as "Daddy".

My love for funk music is profound, but I don't think it is fetishistic. I do refer to George Clinton as "Daddy" though.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Sometimes reading this board is even creepier than that Reddit where everyone refers to Trump as "Daddy".

Sorry, sister. Was it the Golden Showers reference?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I know this is going to sound like crazy talk, but bear with me. It's possible that there are things that happened -- and could be proven in a court of law, for example -- but which haven't been reported yet.

I'm not suggesting the Dems abort investigations. I'm just suggesting they lead with HC for the moment. Russia is stealing some of HC's thunder, and there's a solid chance it'll yield very little. HC is looking right now like a deadlock winner.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

A bit of a pet peeve of mine when anyone refers to it as "Garland's seat".

Just for clarification, I am assuming that you also refer to Kennedy as holding "Bork's seat"?

It is his seat. The GOP abused procedure there and did something contrary to the rules, and their spirit. That Bork was borked doesn't give the GOP a pass. Garland was a sensible moderate. Bork was a lunatic the moderates in the GOP (remember when there were "Liberal Republicans"?) didn't even like.

Fucking Garland was what older litigators used to call "sharp practice." That kind of thing comes back to bite you. And you can't whine when people call it what it is.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Wonking, but this is getting awfully close to criminal conspiracy.

Encouraging an enemy of a political opponent to smear her with stolen emails is not conspiracy.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

You can rest assured that I read everything you wrote.

I rest assured in all circumstances. To steal a line from Bob Weir, once down, "it takes dynamite to get me up."

It's not. You're not grappling with the espionage aspect.

Sure I am. No one was interfering with our government. They were interfering with HRC's campaign, and the DNC. Neither of those two things is part of the govt.

HRC and the DNC could sue Trump's campaign for civil conspiracy. But there was no interference with the US Govt. Nor was there any effort to undermine the US Govt. All efforts were aimed at a political opponent.

HRC would only have qualified as a govt entity, triggering application of the espionage act, if she won the election. And even there, actions taken against her while she was a private citizen would not be espionage.

I understand many people think they were entitled to have her as President, and she was robbed of the office. But at the time the actions at issue were taken, she was a private citizen.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Sometimes reading this board is even creepier than that Reddit where everyone refers to Trump as "Daddy".

The only valid statements about Trump are negative. Full stop.

Even entertaining the suggestion he is tolerable in some respects is heresy.

BUT... It is the same thing we heard from the Right for eight years under Obama. Nobody on the right has authority to bitch. It's repayment for all of those years we had to endure "Socialist!," "Kenyan Muslim!," "Bill Ayers Acolyte!" and all the other cuckoo pants lunacy your right wing relatives stuffed into your email inbox every day.

It's also a lot of fun to say, "I like Trump. I think he's doing a great job," to Lefties at parties. It works like that line in Dylan's "Motorpsycho Nightmare," where he screams "I like Fidel Castro and his beard!" to piss off the crazy farmer. Thankfully, the Lefties don't chase you from the room with a shotgun.

I suggest trying it. It also works on Bush Republicans.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Sure I am. No one was interfering with our government.

They were gaining material to interfere with our government in the future, you nitwit.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

BUT... It is the same thing we heard from the Right for eight years under Obama.

It is, but the difference is they were full of shit and while we're talking about real stuff.

FEMA camps weren't real. He isn't a Muslim. He wasn't born in Kenya. He wasn't coming for their guns.

Immigration raids are real. The travel ban is real. They really are coming for your health insurance. There's at least enough smoke to warrant looking in to how compromised by the Russians he is.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

They were gaining material to interfere with our government in the future, you nitwit.

They hacked Podesta's private email, and DNC servers. Future intent is immaterial. If I run with your dumbass construct, all hacking of private citizens which could potentially impact govt or disclose govt secrets could be espionage.

Unless Podesta and the DNC had classified info in their servers and accounts, which is arguably a separate criminal act by them, there is no theft of state secrets, and no espionage.

I understand I just pulled an essential pin out of your argument. And the typical lawyer response is to try to build an alternative theory to shoehorn things back into your theory. But sometimes, you're just missing an essential element of the crime. And here, that element is the theft of state information. Unless the DNC and Podesta are the govt, you're coming up flat.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It's also a lot of fun to say, "I like Trump. I think he's doing a great job," to Lefties at parties. It works like that line in Dylan's "Motorpsycho Nightmare," where he screams "I like Fidel Castro and his beard!" to piss off the crazy farmer. Thankfully, the Lefties don't chase you from the room with a shotgun.

I suggest trying it. It also works on Bush Republicans.

And when you take shit for sucking up to Trump at your cocktail parties do you leave in a huff and say you're not coming back?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

It is, but the difference is they were full of shit and while we're talking about real stuff.

FEMA camps weren't real. He isn't a Muslim. He wasn't born in Kenya. He wasn't coming for their guns.

Immigration raids are real. The travel ban is real. They really are coming for your health insurance. There's at least enough smoke to warrant looking in to how compromised by the Russians he is.

I agree with pursuing a Russia investigation. At a minimum, we should figure out how they operate in terms of cyber warfare. I just don't we'll find much of a link to Trump.

But I wasn't talking about Russia in the post to which you've responded. I was talking about the Left's general proposition that the only valid comment about Trump is negative, and any hint of tolerance for him, or even a blasé attitude toward him, is invalid or heresy. That's batshit.

No intelligent person looks to the politician. They judge the policies. His immigration ban is idiotic and counterproductive. But his attempt to pare regulation is good. His unfortunately incoherent effort to undo McCarran Ferguson, allowing cross-border insurance competition, is good. His defunding of Planned Parenthood is abhorrent. His tax plan's feature which would allow repatriation of foreign held US corporate money is good. His tariff plans are abysmal. His relaxation of Dodd Frank, if it ever happens, is good. His preferred climate change denial is unforgivably cynical.

Reasonable people could have a conversation about the good and bad of any candidate. Even Donald Trump. That he's a loon who speaks in absolutes does not mean we should do so. Look at the man as a dim sum restaurant. Compromise on the good dishes, register dislike with the bad ones.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Future intent is immaterial.

Not the hacking. The coordinating with Trump. One advantage they get out of coordinating with Trump is influence over Trump, including the ability to threaten him with the release of the coordination.

Stop being intentionally obtuse.

[SEC_Chick]

I will have to say that my absolute favorite story of this year is how Shia Labeouf cannot even successfully fly a stupid flag in protest, even outside of the US. I know virtually nothing about 4Chan, but if the CIA showed that kind of initiative, the world would be a safer place.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

And when you take shit for sucking up to Trump at your cocktail parties do you leave in a huff and say you're not coming back?

I'm never in a pile-on there, so I don't have to. Unlike this place (when it's in pile-on mode), you can pivot from one person or group to another, and get wildly differing views.

I'll be at two bars w/in the next 36 hrs. In them, I'll be able to speak with people who are varying degrees of left and right, moderate, or politically agnostic.

This place lacks balance.