Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Part of what gets me to the gym is crossfit. The 6' 1" blonde girl built like a muscular Michelle Jenneke who does cross fit right in front of the bike I like.

I'll allow it.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

Not sure why you took that as criticism of you, but okay.

My bad, totally. Misread your post. I suppose I'm a little sensitive about it given I don't want to be part of the Crossfit cult, posting their workouts, personal lifting records, and never shutting up with the paleo eating bullshit.

TM

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

Who is "we," compadre? Those things are way too sweet.

We is the generic american, say, what I imagine a cross between Not Bob and ncs would drink when getting together with Flower at the Mall of America.

They have their place, but it's not "enjoying a cold beverage in the summer sun."

Don't be a dick.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

We is the generic american, say, what I imagine a cross between Not Bob and ncs would drink when getting together with Flower at the Mall of America.

I mean, I feel a little bad that you're impugning Flower as a MOA regular, but as you left me out of this tragic little imaginary scene, I'll allow it.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Interesting. Full disclosure: I do crossfit (and try my best not to ever talk about it*). I find that the workouts are very difficult. I do more in the hour I go than I used to in the two hours a day I used to spend at the gym. And my body has changed significantly.

That said, sometimes I drop in to other gyms and the ones that are completely bro'd out are fucking awful. I just want to be fit. I'm not trying to win working out.

TM

*Yes, I realize I am currently talking about it.

For the record, I've never done it. My main issue is that form is often not taught properly for the big lifts such as the squat, deadlift power clean, etc. These exercises need to be perfected from a form standpoint before one goes crazy with them. And doing these lifts for time can be dangerous. Also, kipping is not a pull-up.

I think Mark Rippetoe summarizes it a lot better than I can:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/cr...d-and-the-ugly.

If it works for you and you stay injury-free (and your main goal is to look fit), then more power to you. I'm not necessarily sure if crossfit makes a person "fit". I'm sure it makes you good at crossfit, but what else?

Apropos of this, I have had 2 herniated discs in my back for several years (main one in L5-S1), and I have tried practically everything to...make it better, e.g., yoga, PT, pliates, swimming, etc. So I decided, at 41, to try to strengthen my leg and back muscles. I started a 5x5 routine (Starting Strength) doing only the big lifts, starting with just the bar for some exercises (like the squat, which I'd never done before). My back hasn't felt this good since my 20s. 2x/week and I'm only in the gym for an hour each workout. Finally, lifting heavy is FUN, but it's not easy to run the day after deadlifts. I'm stronger than I was when I was 25.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

For the record, I've never done it. My main issue is that form is often not taught properly for the big lifts such as the squat, deadlift power clean, etc. These exercises need to be perfected from a form standpoint before one goes crazy with them. And doing these lifts for time can be dangerous. Also, kipping is not a pull-up.

I think Mark Rippetoe summarizes it a lot better than I can:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/cr...d-and-the-ugly.

If it works for you and you stay injury-free (and your main goal is to look fit), then more power to you. I'm not necessarily sure if crossfit makes a person "fit". I'm sure it makes you good at crossfit, but what else?

Apropos of this, I have had 2 herniated discs in my back for several years (main one in L5-S1), and I have tried practically everything to...make it better, e.g., yoga, PT, pliates, swimming, etc. So I decided, at 41, to try to strengthen my leg and back muscles. I started a 5x5 routine (Starting Strength) doing only the big lifts, starting with just the bar for some exercises (like the squat, which I'd never done before). My back hasn't felt this good since my 20s. 2x/week and I'm only in the gym for an hour each workout. Finally, lifting heavy is FUN, but it's not easy to run the day after deadlifts. I'm stronger than I was when I was 25.

My main herniation is L4-L5 (and I think I might have another smaller one that has developed up a few vertebrae but have no desire to get another MRI to confirm). I do core classes, kettlebell classes, personal training, and other PT (I spend a ridiculous amount of my life in plank, which I hate), so that I can continue to bike and not have the surgery. It has been going pretty well after a major flare up a year and a half ago that took me out of commission for the entire summer. The one thing that makes me really vulnerable is deadlifts. I cannot lift heavy and maintain my form enough to protect my back. I have had minor setbacks after deadlift sets, so I never go above medium weight for those. I'm surprised they work for you, but everybody is different. Squats, lunges, and similar exercises are so much easier to do with a neutral back. I always thought Crossfit was just dangerous, especially (as you note) doing lifts for time, but I'm sure it really depends on who you are doing it with.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

My main issue is that form is often not taught properly for the big lifts such as the squat, deadlift power clean, etc.

That's tends to be my reaction whenever anyone shares their crossfit videos. Like, "ouch, you're going to hurt yourself." And lo and behold, sure seems like lots of crossfitters hurt themselves.

That and I'm not sure someone who isn't training for athletic excellence needs to be going relatively dangerous lifts like the snatch.

But I'm lazy and all I really do is ride a bike, kinda slow, but sort of a lot. Really need to get back into my old routine of pushups and core exercises, though.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

For the record, I've never done it. My main issue is that form is often not taught properly for the big lifts such as the squat, deadlift power clean, etc. These exercises need to be perfected from a form standpoint before one goes crazy with them. And doing these lifts for time can be dangerous. Also, kipping is not a pull-up.

I think Mark Rippetoe summarizes it a lot better than I can:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/cr...d-and-the-ugly.

If it works for you and you stay injury-free (and your main goal is to look fit), then more power to you. I'm not necessarily sure if crossfit makes a person "fit". I'm sure it makes you good at crossfit, but what else?

Apropos of this, I have had 2 herniated discs in my back for several years (main one in L5-S1), and I have tried practically everything to...make it better, e.g., yoga, PT, pliates, swimming, etc. So I decided, at 41, to try to strengthen my leg and back muscles. I started a 5x5 routine (Starting Strength) doing only the big lifts, starting with just the bar for some exercises (like the squat, which I'd never done before). My back hasn't felt this good since my 20s. 2x/week and I'm only in the gym for an hour each workout. Finally, lifting heavy is FUN, but it's not easy to run the day after deadlifts. I'm stronger than I was when I was 25.

My husband used to teach yoga at a studio associated with a Crossfit studio. Half of his students there were crossfit students, and after they got past the idea that yoga is (relatively*) non-competitive, they got a lot out of it, even if half of them couldn't straighten their arms next to their ears. Unfortunately, the yoga half of the studio closed, and most of the students didn't follow him to his next studio.

*instagram yoga is uber competitive

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

My main herniation is L4-L5 (and I think I might have another smaller one that has developed up a few vertebrae but have no desire to get another MRI to confirm). I do core classes, kettlebell classes, personal training, and other PT (I spend a ridiculous amount of my life in plank, which I hate), so that I can continue to bike and not have the surgery. It has been going pretty well after a major flare up a year and a half ago that took me out of commission for the entire summer. The one thing that makes me really vulnerable is deadlifts. I cannot lift heavy and maintain my form enough to protect my back. I have had minor setbacks after deadlift sets, so I never go above medium weight for those. I'm surprised they work for you, but everybody is different. Squats, lunges, and similar exercises are so much easier to do with a neutral back. I always thought Crossfit was just dangerous, especially (as you note) doing lifts for time, but I'm sure it really depends on who you are doing it with.

I stopped using a regular barbell for deadlifts and started using the hex or trap bar. Admittedly the movement is a little different, but there was a study (I'll try to find it) establishing that hex/trap bar deadlifts put less stress on the lower back than barbell deadlifts.

I did some relatively serious mountain biking a month ago (first time) - that shit can be dangerous.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

For the record, I've never done it. My main issue is that form is often not taught properly for the big lifts such as the squat, deadlift power clean, etc. These exercises need to be perfected from a form standpoint before one goes crazy with them. And doing these lifts for time can be dangerous.

I agree with you completely. Form is the foundation for absolutely everything. And poor form is very dangerous.

Like anything else, there are good gyms and bad gyms. Part of the problem with Crossfit is that the franchise fees are basically nothing. As a result, anyone can open a gym after getting certification. My gym forces you to go through a "fundamentals" set of classes in which they spend considerable time teaching you proper form on every lift before you are ever allowed to touch a bar. And then there are beginner classes and experienced classes (and endurance and heavy lifting specialties, if you want it). The beginner and endurance classes are plenty difficult enough for me (and if any one class is too easy, the coach whose classes I attend scales me up). And our classes spend the warm-up period going over the movements before the actual workout.

The experienced classes are full of cult members. I have plenty of muscle. I have no desire to take my shirt off if I'm within a half mile of a push up (which seems to be what you do when you're an experienced crossfitter).

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Also, kipping is not a pull-up.

True. And burpees aren't push ups. So what? Sometimes we do strict pull-ups, sometimes we do kipping pull-ups (those crazy fuckers in the experienced classes do the windmills--that shit is crazy). I think when there are big numbers of reps involved, they allow kipping so you can get the workout done. And for the record, I've had plenty of workouts where I was doing a lot of kipping pull ups and the same muscles are sore the next day as if I had done strict pull ups.

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

I think Mark Rippetoe summarizes it a lot better than I can:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/cr...d-and-the-ugly.

This article is fair. It is also quite outdated. A lot of his criticisms no longer apply. A good gym designs their classes to mix in high intensity training, endurance, strength, etc. So classes are no longer just a race to get in as many reps as possible anymore. That happens, but it's not the norm (at least at my gym). Today we did an all body weight workout. Yesterday was endurance. There is a good mix.

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

If it works for you and you stay injury-free (and your main goal is to look fit), then more power to you. I'm not necessarily sure if crossfit makes a person "fit". I'm sure it makes you good at crossfit, but what else?

I'm not sure what this means. What gym exercises make one good at anything besides getting in better shape? I will say that it has helped my basketball immensely. I don't get tired. And I am generally way stronger than when I started. Does running make you better at football? Kinda. Does squatting make you better at tennis? Maybe.

The injury comment is fair. People who are stupid injure themselves at crossfit. My doctor said the craze has lead to tons of patients coming in because they overdid it. That said, I think in the last two years, I've seen maybe two people hurt themselves in my class. I've hurt my back a bit on heavy lifting days. But it's never been anything serious. If you use common sense and scale your workout to your ability levels, it's like any other form of exercise. If you run 5 Ks and tomorrow went out and ran a marathon, you'd probably hurt yourself.

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Apropos of this, I have had 2 herniated discs in my back for several years (main one in L5-S1), and I have tried practically everything to...make it better, e.g., yoga, PT, pliates, swimming, etc. So I decided, at 41, to try to strengthen my leg and back muscles. I started a 5x5 routine (Starting Strength) doing only the big lifts, starting with just the bar for some exercises (like the squat, which I'd never done before). My back hasn't felt this good since my 20s. 2x/week and I'm only in the gym for an hour each workout. Finally, lifting heavy is FUN, but it's not easy to run the day after deadlifts. I'm stronger than I was when I was 25.

Excellent. I have terrible knees (4 surgeries, including a reconstruction). I was down to only being able to play ball once every two weeks and then struggling to walk for 3-5 days after. Since I've been going, the muscles in my legs are much stronger because of crossfit and that takes a lot of pressure off of my knees. It's amazing. I still only play ball once a week, but recovery is way faster and I'm trying to be smart about it.

TM

eta: And the women who do crossfit (not the ones who take the tons of extra protein) are fucking hot.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I agree with you completely. Form is the foundation for absolutely everything. And poor form is very dangerous.

Like anything else, there are good gyms and bad gyms. Part of the problem with Crossfit is that the franchise fees are basically nothing. As a result, anyone can open a gym after getting certification. My gym forces you to go through a "fundamentals" set of classes in which they spend considerable time teaching you proper form on every lift before you are ever allowed to touch a bar. And then there are beginner classes and experienced classes (and endurance and heavy lifting specialties, if you want it). The beginner and endurance classes are plenty difficult enough for me (and if any one class is too easy, the coach whose classes I attend scales me up). And our classes spend the warm-up period going over the movements before the actual workout.

The experienced classes are full of cult members. I have plenty of muscle. I have no desire to take my shirt off if I'm within a half mile of a push up (which seems to be what you do when you're an experienced crossfitter).

True. And burpees aren't push ups. So what? Sometimes we do strict pull-ups, sometimes we do kipping pull-ups (those crazy fuckers in the experienced classes do the windmills--that shit is crazy). I think when there are big numbers of reps involved, they allow kipping so you can get the workout done. And for the record, I've had plenty of workouts where I was doing a lot of kipping pull ups and the same muscles are sore the next day as if I had done strict pull ups.

This article is fair. It is also quite outdated. A lot of his criticisms no longer apply. A good gym designs their classes to mix in high intensity training, endurance, strength, etc. So classes are no longer just a race to get in as many reps as possible anymore. That happens, but it's not the norm (at least at my gym). Today we did an all body weight workout. Yesterday was endurance. There is a good mix.

I'm not sure what this means. What gym exercises make one good at anything besides getting in better shape? I will say that it has helped my basketball immensely. I don't get tired. And I am generally way stronger than when I started. Does running make you better at football? Kinda. Does squatting make you better at tennis? Maybe.

The injury comment is fair. People who are stupid injure themselves at crossfit. My doctor said the craze has lead to tons of patients coming in because they overdid it. That said, I think in the last two years, I've seen maybe two people hurt themselves in my class. I've hurt my back a bit on heavy lifting days. But it's never been anything serious. If you use common sense and scale your workout to your ability levels, it's like any other form of exercise. If you run 5 Ks and tomorrow went out and ran a marathon, you'd probably hurt yourself.

Excellent. I have terrible knees (4 surgeries, including a reconstruction). I was down to only being able to play ball once every two weeks and then struggling to walk for 3-5 days after. Since I've been going, the muscles in my legs are much stronger because of crossfit and that takes a lot of pressure off of my knees. It's amazing. I still only play ball once a week, but recovery is way faster and I'm trying to be smart about it.

TM

eta: And the women who do crossfit (not the ones who take the tons of extra protein) are fucking hot.

You've sold me...for someone like you (and probably everyone on this board except Hank), crossfit is probably a great way to get fit, whatever that means. A smart guy like you knows the importance of perfecting form before going balls out (because you (we) are old and wise). For the average American (basically a moron), I'm not so sure.

Lifting heavy gives you practical strength: picking up your kids, carrying logs from a tree your just cut down (I just did this - SO MANLY), moving furniture, carrying...anything, etc. Crossfit actually probably provides you with similar practical strength. And for you it's obviously helped your knees, which is awesome.

Re: your comment on the women - it's true of the ones lifting heavy too. Have you seen Daisy Ridley deadlifting? Pound for pound she's stronger than me (although I'm not that strong).

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

My husband used to teach yoga at a studio associated with a Crossfit studio. Half of his students there were crossfit students, and after they got past the idea that yoga is (relatively*) non-competitive, they got a lot out of it, even if half of them couldn't straighten their arms next to their ears. Unfortunately, the yoga half of the studio closed, and most of the students didn't follow him to his next studio.

*instagram yoga is uber competitive

Yoga is awesome. I need to do it more. But squats/deadlifts have helped my back pain more than yoga.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

I stopped using a regular barbell for deadlifts and started using the hex or trap bar. Admittedly the movement is a little different, but there was a study (I'll try to find it) establishing that hex/trap bar deadlifts put less stress on the lower back than barbell deadlifts.

I did some relatively serious mountain biking a month ago (first time) - that shit can be dangerous.

Yeah, biking is very low impact, except when it is very high impact. I guess I'd rather injure myself mountain biking than flipping a giant tire.* But, to be fair, I love kettlebells because of the dynamic strength, but just like crossfit, working with kettlebells is a fantastic way to seriously injure yourself if you don't have an instructor who is obsessed with form.

* I have an MTB race this weekend, and if I crash and get injured, it will be your fault, and I will be fucking pissed.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Interesting. Full disclosure: I do crossfit (and try my best not to ever talk about it*). I find that the workouts are very difficult. I do more in the hour I go than I used to in the two hours a day I used to spend at the gym. And my body has changed significantly.

That said, sometimes I drop in to other gyms and the ones that are completely bro'd out are fucking awful. I just want to be fit. I'm not trying to win working out.

TM

*Yes, I realize I am currently talking about it.

No doubt it's a good workout but I injure myself taking my shoes off so I pretty much stick to light weight for many reps and cardio.

If I had a more predictable schedule I'd roll right into kickboxing again. My only goal is looking better/being healthy and ogling girls in their 20s.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

No doubt it's a good workout but I injure myself taking my shoes off so I pretty much stick to light weight for many reps and cardio.

If I had a more predictable schedule I'd roll right into kickboxing again. My only goal is looking better/being healthy and ogling girls in their 20s.

translation: I only have sons.


I cannot look at girls younger than my daughter. It's why there is Mom porn.