We are all Slave now.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Salty and sweet at the same time?

Hot side hot, cold side cold? What'd they call that short-lived burger?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

It's fun to see you parse and correct someone else's use of language.

I learned from the master?

And at least we argued over an actual word. The biggest problem with "rape culture" is it can mean anything the speaker desires. It sounds really nasty and gets huge effect, but what the fuck does it mean? Does it mean whatever the speaker "feels" it should mean in the moment? Does it mean the seventy year old woman who told me yesterday that these Kavanaugh accusers were paid by Soros is part of "rape culture"? I mean, I was putting her and those like her in the "loony" box all along. Have I been mischaracterizing them? And what's a member of "rape culture" called? A "rape aficionado"? A "rape enthusiast"? "Pro-sexual-assault"? Is there a convention? I don't want to stay at any hotel where that convention's been...

Call these people women haters, misogynists... those fit. And they're pretty sharp indictments. But this all-or-nothing thinking ("if you don't believe her, you're part of rape culture!") and these silly fucking words do no favors for the movement. It's perhaps a sad irony that adults tend to be less interested in radical change than kids, but that change can only be effected when people demanding it converse like adults, but that's the way things work.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

That's not the definition I have heard at all. That's you backpedaling. When people use the term "rape culture," they apply it smear traditional masculine behaviors and institutions celebrating those behaviors. "Rapey fratty" is a frequent derivative. It's a piece of hyperbole which can be brandished broadly, but then when one is taken to task for using it, as I took you, redefined, as you have here, to mean something very narrow.

This is absolutely false. Your understanding of the term is completely wrong.

Rape culture is the atmosphere in which people diminish allegations of rape and attack the victim in order to protect the accused.

I know your next response will focus on the cocktail parties at which you discuss silly, stupid pc terms that turn people off and force them to vote Republican, but before you do, read this:

"Rape culture is a sociological concept for a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality. Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, slut-shaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by some forms of sexual violence, or some combination of these."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

You don't get to define how discussions work or what things mean based on the limits you've set up in your addled head.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I can and will use language that is accurate. One needn't be Bill Safire to apprehend that "rape culture" is a idiot's cudgel.

You don't even know what if fucking means. Pound sand.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I hate all inside lingo. I hate it when it's even industry-specific. It's a cheap way to create a barrier, to bond with fellow users of McLanguage, and to appear to have knowledge which one doesn't.

ETA: And it's worth noting, when I was inaccurate in using "censorship," Ty ripped me for it. At least censorship is a word. "Rape Culture" is an undefinable meme-like creation.

Whatever. You are a fool.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

That's not the definition I have heard at all. That's you backpedaling.

No, that's you being ignorant of something you just ranted about.

To assert that "rape culture" defines only the people who refuse to believe old rape allegations or think there should be no consequences for them is to narrow term's use to very limited circumstances.

"Only" is your assertion, not mine.

It's used broadly, to suggest there's a male culture in which rape is okay, perhaps even viewed positively.

Yes, and an example of that is excusing rape allegations because they are old, or because he was young, or because it will ruin his future. Also, I don't think anyone thinks it's limited to men.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

This is absolutely false. Your understanding of the term is completely wrong.

Rape culture is the atmosphere in which people diminish allegations of rape and attack the victim in order to protect the accused.

I know your next response will focus on the cocktail parties at which you discuss silly, stupid pc terms that turn people off and force them to vote Republican, but before you do, read this:

"Rape culture is a sociological concept for a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality. Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, slut-shaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by some forms of sexual violence, or some combination of these."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

You don't get to define how discussions work or what things mean based on the limits you've set up in your addled head.

TM

That’s very much the same malleable definition I described. Ya think I don’t have fucking Wikipedia?

That “definition” is so broad it could mean anything. And what’s even more fucked up is the sort of people who use it would define it even more broadly than that.

McLanguage. To use your own term, fuckouttahere.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

No, that's you being ignorant of something you just ranted about.



"Only" is your assertion, not mine.



Yes, and an example of that is excusing rape allegations because they are old, or because he was young, or because it will ruin his future. Also, I don't think anyone thinks it's limited to men.

No. There’s no daylight between what TM posted and what I described as McLanguage. It’s a cudgel. It’s definition is so broad it could be anything, which is why it’s a shit word and meme favored by the unserious and signaling.

[Adder]

You know what's unserious? Demonstrating the concept in question while denying its existence.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

You know what's unserious? Demonstrating the concept in question while denying its existence.

Again, this isn’t 10th grade debate class. Stop with the obvious tropes. Converse and debate like an adult.

ETA: I can’t believe I have to write this, but... You are aware that stating that “rape culture” is a lousy word is not denying the severity or pervasiveness of rape. You get that not only is this “you prove my point” tactic a silly debate trope, but the argument also fails under your own logic.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

You know what's unserious? Demonstrating the concept in question while denying its existence.

Am I on ignore? Did no one read how brave I was?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Again, this isn’t 10th grade debate class. Stop with the obvious tropes. Converse and debate like an adult.

Says the person stomping his feet and insisting that certain words shouldn't be used because he doesn't like their definition.

We live in a culture that excuses and dismisses rape and rape victims. That is not a controversial statement. It is not an overbroad or unserious statement. What is happening to Dr. Blasey-Ford is evidence of that (right now she is being cross-examined by a prosecutor on such topics whether she is really afraid of flying). The sentence given to Brock Turner, and the explanation for it, are evidence of that. Disproportionate concern about the possibility of false accusations is evidence of that. The evidence of it is everywhere.

Look, you don't even deny the existence of it (aside from laughably misdefining it), you just petulantly bitch about the words because you think it can be used to describe things that you believe are not valid complaints. Too bad.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

That’s very much the same malleable definition I described. Ya think I don’t have fucking Wikipedia?

That “definition” is so broad it could mean anything. And what’s even more fucked up is the sort of people who use it would define it even more broadly than that.

McLanguage. To use your own term, fuckouttahere.

Do you think you're winning this argument? You look supremely ridiculous.

I was going to write a substantive response, but this is stupid. You live in your own world. I don't even want to visit.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Am I on ignore? Did no one read how brave I was?

You were very brave. Here's a cookie.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Do you think you're winning this argument? You look supremely ridiculous.

I was going to write a substantive response, but this is stupid. You live in your own world. I don't even want to visit.

TM

Do you think you don’t live in your own head? I wouldn’t even know where to begin explaining how far your head is up your own ass.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Says the person stomping his feet and insisting that certain words shouldn't be used because he doesn't like their definition.

We live in a culture that excuses and dismisses rape and rape victims. That is not a controversial statement. It is not an overbroad or unserious statement. What is happening to Dr. Blasey-Ford is evidence of that (right now she is being cross-examined by a prosecutor on such topics whether she is really afraid of flying). The sentence given to Brock Turner, and the explanation for it, are evidence of that. Disproportionate concern about the possibility of false accusations is evidence of that. The evidence of it is everywhere.

Look, you don't even deny the existence of it (aside from laughably misdefining it), you just petulantly bitch about the words because you think it can be used to describe things that you believe are not valid complaints. Too bad.

It’s a dumb word. It is used as a cudgel. Serious people do not use that word.

If you wish to sound unserious, continue to use the word, and others like it.