We are all Slave now.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

If you are talking Jill Stein votes, no.

From your seat in San Fran please share your wisdom about what happened in Mi, Pa and Wi?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

From your seat in San Fran please share your wisdom about what happened in Mi, Pa and Wi?

Pennsylvania remains the most baffling to me. As someone from upstate NY, I increasingly view rural Pennsylvanians as our even more in-bred cousins.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

From your seat in San Fran please share your wisdom about what happened in Mi, Pa and Wi?

I’m pretty sure that what happened in those three states is that Hillary lost to Trump by less than the number of votes that went to Stein and/or Johnson (he was the libertarian candidate, right).

I think many of us also felt that Hillary didn’t campaign enough in those states (especially Wis). And that that failure was one of several unforced errors in her strategy. Some of us also think that the timing of the Comey letter cost her enough votes in close states to cost her electoral votes.

But, I agree with Hank that the one thing we know for fact cost her the election is that certain otherwise intelligent people decided to vote for Jill Stein instead of Hillary in certain states.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

I’m pretty sure that what happened in those three states is that Hillary lost to Trump by less than the number of votes that went to Stein and/or Johnson (he was the libertarian candidate, right).

I think many of us also felt that Hillary didn’t campaign enough in those states (especially Wis). And that that failure was one of several unforced errors in her strategy. Some of us also think that the timing of the Comey letter cost her enough votes in close states to cost her electoral votes.

But, I agree with Hank that the one thing we know for fact cost her the election is that certain otherwise intelligent people decided to vote for Jill Stein instead of Hillary in certain states.

Less and I had a summit meeting at the san Fran moth and discussed the election- Less is of the opinion that Johnson votes cost Trump more than Hillary- of course Less also thought it made sense to fuck Paigow, so ymmv?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Less and I had a summit meeting at the san Fran moth and discussed the election- Less is of the opinion that Johnson votes cost Trump more than Hillary- of course Less also thought it made sense to fuck Paigow, so ymmv?

The Johnson folks are mostly people who, but for Johnson, would be Hillary votes at every cocktail party and Trump votes in the booth.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

I’m pretty sure that what happened in those three states is that Hillary lost to Trump by less than the number of votes that went to Stein and/or Johnson (he was the libertarian candidate, right).

I think many of us also felt that Hillary didn’t campaign enough in those states (especially Wis). And that that failure was one of several unforced errors in her strategy. Some of us also think that the timing of the Comey letter cost her enough votes in close states to cost her electoral votes.

But, I agree with Hank that the one thing we know for fact cost her the election is that certain otherwise intelligent people decided to vote for Jill Stein instead of Hillary in certain states.

Trump's margin of victory was so narrow that any number of things were but-for causes of Clinton's loss: third-party candidates, where the campaign went in the final days, Comey's stunt, vote suppression, etc. Any of those could have moved enough voters to make a difference.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The Johnson folks are mostly people who, but for Johnson, would be Hillary votes at every cocktail party and Trump votes in the booth.

Again, other than the 1 johnson voter I think we know, you are likely speaking out of your ass- as am I. but i agree with you as to the 1 I know.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Trump's margin of victory was so narrow that any number of things were but-for causes of Clinton's loss: third-party candidates, where the campaign went in the final days, Comey's stunt, vote suppression, etc. Any of those could have moved enough voters to make a difference.

right. and which of these factors are most easily controlled/changed for next time?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

right. and which of these factors are most easily controlled/changed for next time?

IMO, there will always be third-party candidates, and there will always be dopes who decide to vote for them. If they do well, it's more a sign of weakness in the major candidates.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Trump's margin of victory was so narrow that any number of things were but-for causes of Clinton's loss: third-party candidates, where the campaign went in the final days, Comey's stunt, vote suppression, etc. Any of those could have moved enough voters to make a difference.

Concerted efforts of a foreign government to use social media to encourage people not to vote or to vote third party, etc.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Less and I had a summit meeting at the san Fran moth and discussed the election- Less is of the opinion that Johnson votes cost Trump more than Hillary- of course Less also thought it made sense to fuck Paigow, so ymmv?

He did? How did he manage to keep that a secret? I mean, the first line in Slave’s obituary will be “he fucked Paigow.”

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Again, other than the 1 johnson voter I think we know, you are likely speaking out of your ass- as am I. but i agree with you as to the 1 I know.

I’ve explained this before. Neither choice was acceptable to me, I don’t like being given lousy choices, and I was privileged enough (I’m told) to cast a protest vote.

I never told anyone at a cocktail party I’d vote for Hillary, and I never once flirted with pressing the button for Trump in the booth.

I did what I felt like doing. Which is most of the motivation for everything I do.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

IMO, there will always be third-party candidates, and there will always be dopes who decide to vote for them. If they do well, it's more a sign of weakness in the major candidates.

and do they increase 500% in numbers each election cycle?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

Slave’s obituary will be “he fucked Paigow.”

do you not see how denigrating to women genrrally and perpetuating of the patriarchy such a sentiment is? not to mention individually insulting to a woman who has done you no harm? you should be ashamed Bob.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Concerted efforts of a foreign government to use social media to encourage people not to vote or to vote third party, etc.

Or maybe, um, she just lost. I understand the pathological need to believe the win was illegitimate. But here’s the thing: It’s a W. He won. Nothing is sillier than litigating an issue on which you can never be awarded the relief you seek.