Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I guess I was wondering what you meant when you said appliances aren’t really made there. It sounded like you knew something I didn’t know.

Any detailed knowledge I once had dates to 2005/2006, but as of that time the largest producer of appliances sold in America was Whirlpool (Maytag, KitchenAid, JennAir, Amana and MagicChef brands, among others). Much of its production is/was in Benton Harbor, MI and elsewhere in the U.S. (Arkansas maybe?). No production in China.

The next largest was GE. If I recall, they had some Mexican production, but otherwise did their production in the U.S. None in China.

Others included Electrolux (Frigidaire), produced in the US (maybe some in Europe but I don't recall how much was imported).

Primary imports were LG and Samsung, both from Korea. I have vague recollections that maybe Samsung had or was going to open production facilities in China, but I'm not at all confident about that.

Those companies make up pretty much all of the consumer appliance manufacturing for products sold in the US (they also build anything sold under the Kenmore brand) aside from a few minor players. One of those minor players is Haier, still pretty much the only Chinese producer you see selling appliances at your Best Buys and your Home Depots.

It's been a long time, and it's entirely possible they've done some offshoring to China, especially the Korean firms who were already shipping from overseas anyway but I believe Samsung has opened U.S. production facilities since then too. Or maybe already even had some back then (they had taken over all of the Kenmore microwave business but I can't recall where the production facilities were).

ETA: It's almost guaranteed that they purchase components manufactured in China, though.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I'm not arguing against micro-aggressions. I actually have adjusted my thinking on them. Diangelo made a solid case.

BUT, the fact that you are properly exhausted every time a white person denies racism does not mean:

1. Every critique of a foreign products is racist toward the country it came from; or,
2. Where racism is not present, the allegation of it should nevertheless stand without denial.

Jesus fucking Christ, man.

Take a step back. I have been telling you everything that you read in D'Angelo's book for years. You push back on everything. Constantly. Incessantly. When we finally make a little progress, it's because a white woman wrote a book saying the same things from a white person's perspective. Then you write a post about how black people should outline a day in their lives. I tell you that I have done that very same thing with you constantly. You lecture me on what racism means and how and where it's present.

Can you connect the fucking dots on any of this?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Adder said I was racist toward the Chinese.

Again, you need to understand that someone asking you to take a look at why you're saying the things you're saying does not mean you are a racist in the sense that you're taking it. Inspect what you're saying and be cognizant that some of it might be colored with preconceived notions. If it's not, make your case. But the point is to be able to have a conversation without turning the whole thing on its head by focusing on the fact that you think someone else thinks your racist.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There are a lot of people who call themselves that. This person wasn't full of shit. If he were full of shit, he'd have dismissed 1619 out of hand, as many conservatives are doing.

No. The point I'm making is that it is impossible to be both. Anyone who says they are is either purposefully full of shit or fooling themselves. You can't be both.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

The really hard part when this stuff happens is understanding what to do about it. 90% of the time, if I was talking to the associate who had that story, they'd ask me not to bring the complaint any farther because they're afraid they'll get flak for saying anything. And you can't bring it anonymously because figuring out which minority is involved is usually pretty easy to figure out, or at least narrow down to two (which means they'll both get flak).

Firm leadership should immediately make it clear that anyone who is present in our offices should be treated as if they are a client. I don't care what color they are, what they're wearing, what their gender is, etc. If it happened to this associate, it's happened to others. Be a fucking professional or work somewhere else. This is a place of business.

That's how I'd handle it, but we're a Boston-based firm, so we won't do anything like that.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

How was he dressed? If I see anyone in a black polo and khakis I assume he/she is there to fix the printers or do some IT type work. I probably should not assume this but my brain does it before I can stop it.

He was dressed in business casual attire just like everyone else. He was carrying a briefcase.

But he/I/anyone shouldn't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the assumption was ridiculous. Believe us. We know it when we see it.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

It's 2019 - do big law firms still have dress codes? I see plenty of lawyers showing up for depositions in polo shirts nowadays in the summer.

Isn't this the whole point? If you see lawyers and clients showing up in jeans and polos (which he was absolutely not wearing), why the fuck would you ever assume someone was there to fix something? It's not 1995. Your argument cuts the exact opposite way.

TM

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

He was dressed in business casual attire just like everyone else. He was carrying a briefcase.

But he/I/anyone shouldn't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the assumption was ridiculous. Believe us. We know it when we see it.

TM

I was just curious. I believe you.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Isn't this the whole point? If you see lawyers and clients showing up in jeans and polos (which he was absolutely not wearing), why the fuck would you ever assume someone was there to fix something? It's not 1995. Your argument cuts the exact opposite way.

TM

I don't have an argument. I was just asking a question.

Maybe it's the type of casual outfit that I'm thinking of. Khakis (that are the actual khaki color) and a black polo always looks like a uniform to me. That's what I'm picturing in my head when I think of "printer repair guy".

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

I was just curious. I believe you.

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

I don't have an argument. I was just asking a question.

Not trying to be aggressive. Hard to make those comments come off as general.

TM

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

Any detailed knowledge I once had dates to 2005/2006, but as of that time the largest producer of appliances sold in America was Whirlpool (Maytag, KitchenAid, JennAir, Amana and MagicChef brands, among others). Much of its production is/was in Benton Harbor, MI and elsewhere in the U.S. (Arkansas maybe?). No production in China.

The next largest was GE. If I recall, they had some Mexican production, but otherwise did their production in the U.S. None in China.

Others included Electrolux (Frigidaire), produced in the US (maybe some in Europe but I don't recall how much was imported).

Primary imports were LG and Samsung, both from Korea. I have vague recollections that maybe Samsung had or was going to open production facilities in China, but I'm not at all confident about that.

Those companies make up pretty much all of the consumer appliance manufacturing for products sold in the US (they also build anything sold under the Kenmore brand) aside from a few minor players. One of those minor players is Haier, still pretty much the only Chinese producer you see selling appliances at your Best Buys and your Home Depots.

It's been a long time, and it's entirely possible they've done some offshoring to China, especially the Korean firms who were already shipping from overseas anyway but I believe Samsung has opened U.S. production facilities since then too. Or maybe already even had some back then (they had taken over all of the Kenmore microwave business but I can't recall where the production facilities were).

ETA: It's almost guaranteed that they purchase components manufactured in China, though.

Just looked up Whirlpool- it is largely still made in the States (Ohio, not Benton Harbor anymore, but still).

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Not trying to be aggressive. Hard to make those comments come off as general.

TM

Was the briefcase leather? I stopped bringing my leather one to court or depositions. My cheap Samsonsite is much more practical (and I don't have to worry about it getting scratched).

What I won't do is wear a backpack with a suit.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

It's 2019 - do big law firms still have dress codes? I see plenty of lawyers showing up for depositions in polo shirts nowadays in the summer.

Anyway, I'd be surprised if the comment was made to anyone wearing a suit.

When I was at BIGLAW, I was on the elevator with an older black man in a suit. I tried to steer him to the floor with all of the conference rooms, because in the suit I took him for a client. Turns out he was a temporary legal secretary, and thought I was suggesting he didn't belong there. I'm sure he was dressing up to err on the side of being professional. My mistake, and I hope my apology and explanation helped.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Any detailed knowledge I once had dates to 2005/2006, but as of that time the largest producer of appliances sold in America was Whirlpool (Maytag, KitchenAid, JennAir, Amana and MagicChef brands, among others). Much of its production is/was in Benton Harbor, MI and elsewhere in the U.S. (Arkansas maybe?). No production in China.

The next largest was GE. If I recall, they had some Mexican production, but otherwise did their production in the U.S. None in China.

Others included Electrolux (Frigidaire), produced in the US (maybe some in Europe but I don't recall how much was imported).

Primary imports were LG and Samsung, both from Korea. I have vague recollections that maybe Samsung had or was going to open production facilities in China, but I'm not at all confident about that.

Those companies make up pretty much all of the consumer appliance manufacturing for products sold in the US (they also build anything sold under the Kenmore brand) aside from a few minor players. One of those minor players is Haier, still pretty much the only Chinese producer you see selling appliances at your Best Buys and your Home Depots.

It's been a long time, and it's entirely possible they've done some offshoring to China, especially the Korean firms who were already shipping from overseas anyway but I believe Samsung has opened U.S. production facilities since then too. Or maybe already even had some back then (they had taken over all of the Kenmore microwave business but I can't recall where the production facilities were).

ETA: It's almost guaranteed that they purchase components manufactured in China, though.

It's always fun when Adder and I get to relive old mergers.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Was the briefcase leather? I stopped bringing my leather one to court or depositions. My cheap Samsonsite is much more practical (and I don't have to worry about it getting scratched).

What I won't do is wear a backpack with a suit.

You carry your toner brush and compressed air can in a briefcase?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

Was the briefcase leather? I stopped bringing my leather one to court or depositions. My cheap Samsonsite is much more practical (and I don't have to worry about it getting scratched).

No clue.

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

What I won't do is wear a backpack with a suit.

You just need to perfect your sexy professional laid back look.



Or at least be more like plf.



(This guy couldn't be more lost.)

TM