Fashion Board 4-6-04 to 5-7-04

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by bilmore
We're probably agreeing, but . . .

PC does have a meaning, in spite of its overuse and defensive misuse. If you dispute an argument I make, and you use facts and logic to do so, and I respond that your dispute is invalid because it's an ad hominem attack, when it's not, I haven't redefined "ad hominem", I've just misued it. I think that's what's happened to "PC".

We are agreeing. Someone write this date down. It should be a holiday on the board.

TM

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Someone write this date down. It should be a holiday on the board.

TM

We need to plan for breasticle day further in advance than this.

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by spookyfish
We need to plan for breasticle day further in advance than this.

Ok.

When do you want to have it?

[Not Me]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I think of these kinds of men as having a sort of benign sexism, because it is cancelled out by the fact that they are not sexist in their actions - i.e. with the guy I am thinking of, it was really all about your brain if you wanted to succeed with him.

It is not benign at all. The fact that you are willing to excuse it is because you have internalized the sexism and are also a realist in that you recognize you have limited power to change this. If you cannot beat them, just go with the flow and deal with it.

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Of course, it was a pain in the ass, but that's life. I'm just not sure men like that should be condemned as sexist because it's more complex than that. (not that I would condone that kind of speech).

See my point above.

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Also not sure if this kind of behavior can translate to a race context. I was just thinking about it.

Yes, you are, you just are afraid to say it because you are white.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I look at what other people think of as useless PCisms as a positive trend. I believe that people should be called what they want to be called. Whether, like in my conversation awhile back with leagl, a transvestite wants to be referred to as a woman or an asian man wants to be referred to as such instead of an "oriental," I think it's a good thing. It makes people think before they speak. And most often, the people who have trouble with that are lazy and overly set in their ways -- can't let go of the labels they've used for so long.

You know I agree with you on this - people should absolutely be addressed as they wish, be that with respect to race, sex, names and titles or whatever. However, "people" is individuals, and there still needs to be a clearly and universally understood default fallback for when individual preferences aren't known. And it can't change often - even once a generation is a lot, because even then you have at least 3 generations at any given time, each having been taught - forcefully - a different term of respect and every other generation taking and giving dire insult. And people who have spent their lives using a term, title or description that was legitimately respectful really have to be grandfathered in for a significant amount of time (w/r/t the default use of the term only, of course - knowledge of an individual preference overrides anything else). Society-wide usage can't change in 10 or 15 years just because a younger generation has a new political point of view.

We agree wholeheartedly that people should always be aware of and thinking about how to address others with respect - but the purpose of having society wide standards of manners (i.e.: society wide standards of how not to insult people unintentionally) is so that people who wish to be respectful have a reasonable chance of getting it right and not having to worry that the correct form of address has changed this year (or this decade, for that matter). No one is well served if everyone is walking about on eggshells afraid to address each other.

The transvestite issue is actually a pretty interesting one, because it is rare enough (or unacknowledged enough) that there isn't a specific, generally known default for the situation, so you have to default to the default-default: you address someone as they present themselves (which means someone presenting as a female is addressed as a female, and if a transvestite objects that dressing like a woman does not lessen their inherent masculinity, which has happened to me, you just apologize and say you weren't aware of their preference and get it right the next time).

BR(and its "DebtSlave" professionally, for your information, and "Mrs. Mister Slave" socially, because I know you were all dying to know)C

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by leagleaze
Ok.

When do you want to have it?

Is tomorrow enough notice?

But seriously, perhaps we could conduct one in honor of your impending retirement.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I think of these kinds of men as having a sort of benign sexism, because it is cancelled out by the fact that they are not sexist in their actions - i.e. with the guy I am thinking of, it was really all about your brain if you wanted to succeed with him.

If you substitute "partner" for "artist," I know this guy, and his general misanthropy applies to everyone, not just women. And once you've impressed him, he's great to be around. Plus, I think that he says stuff just to get a rise out of people, to be shocking, which artists can probably get away with (especially once they're established, and their paintings go for five digits or more) more than the general population.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
internalized the sexism

Can you please internalize your assholism?

[NotFromHere]

Shocked that no one is talking about Michael Jackson.
I think on the 2 counts of administering an intoxicating agent - he's pretty much screwed on that. There's too much evidence about the Jesus juice floating around. And the fact that he calls it Jesus juice is just the topper.

On the 7 counts of lewd and lascivious acts - if sleeping in the same bed is lewd and/or lascivious, then he's a little screwed there too. As for anything else that is lewd and lascivious - I don't know what all that includes - it's going to come down to a he said/he said. In all, I think Mikey's on a long hard journey.

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by spookyfish
Is tomorrow enough notice?

But seriously, perhaps we could conduct one in honor of your impending retirement.

No and no, not necessary but thanks. While I would appreciate the gesture...ok actually I wouldn't appreciate the gesture. I was never thrilled about running breasticle day, maybe Slave can run it this time, unless RT is willing to do so.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
There are some men who say sexist things occasionally (for example - lazy bitch - I use the word bitch a lot, but I still consider it a sexist term - maybe that is a whole other discussion)

I'm sure we've had this conversation on the FB before, but I think of "bitch" as the equivalent of "dick" for guys. You can't call a woman a stupid dick. It doesn't work. When I think, "What a fucking bitch," about a woman, it's the same as when I think, "What a fucking asshole," about a man. And I never call women assholes. The offensive behavior is the same. But the terms aren't interchangeable.

But maybe the fact that there really is no actual gender equivalent slur for guys means something. What do people think?

TM

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Can you please internalize your assholism?

Your obsession with me continues.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by leagleaze
No and no, not necessary but thanks. While I would appreciate the gesture...ok actually I wouldn't appreciate the gesture. I was never thrilled about running breasticle day, maybe Slave can run it this time, unless RT is willing to do so.

Are you taking volunteers?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Shocked that no one is talking about Michael Jackson.
I think on the 2 counts of administering an intoxicating agent - he's pretty much screwed on that. There's too much evidence about the Jesus juice floating around. And the fact that he calls it Jesus juice is just the topper.

I'll talk about him when I collect his death pool bonus points.

But why does the drinking matter? Don't bartenders get arrested for that? And there's no scarlet list for it either.

Leagl is retiring from the boards?

Request: can men with perfect martini glass chest hair please submit pics of their chests as well? Pics of penii are vulgar and pics of chicks are not that exciting