I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

[Y]ou don't give a fuck about minorities' rights or that you don't give a fuck about anything.

Sebby does give a fuck about criminal justice reform -- he's just unable to translate that given fuck into saying anything critical about anyone who isn't a Democrat, or voting for a candidate who might do something about it.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

Bernie wouldn't have won. But I'm beginning to wonder if we deserved to. Everywhere I looked on the news last night and this morning, I saw the kind of behavior that had me scared as hell of Trump winning. Riots in thee streets. I wanted to puke. Liberals turning into the kind of lawless yahoos that swept Trump to victory. If Trump's real campaign slogan was "Making America White Again" (and it was), the Democrats' reaction is Resurrect the Weather Underground.

Every single person in America of voting age is guilty of putting us into the shit show we now find ourselves in. Democrats are burning and looting like the rule of law, something we were so fucking sanctimonious about, means nothing. Republicans who one by one tried to distance themselves from President Pussygrab are sniffing at his tail like eager puppies.

We have four years of deconstructing America to dread because neither party could manage to get enough people interested enough to put up a candidate who was both electable and not psychotic. So instead, we got Hillary, who most people in America just plain [I]didn't trust[I] and the poster child for bad behavior by someone with the mentality of a schoolyard bully.

Yes, Hillary had some good policies, plans, and experience. But most of America neither liked nor trusted her. And yes, Trump is a racist, sexist, ball of unchecked white privilege. But he gave all the people who used to have to hide in country clubs and dive bars permission to spew their hate in the streets.

After seeing Democrats stopping traffic in LA and Chicago and burning and looting in New York and New Orleans, it's clear that we really aren't all that much better than them.

Note that I'm not accusing anybody on this board of behaving like animals. I'm just observing that we are lying with the same dogs as the Republicans and we have apparently picked up the same fleas.

Stevenson was right. In a democracy, people pretty much get the government they deserve. Maybe instead of pissing and moaning, or thinking we're any better than anyone else, all of us can actually step it up, put what we stand for in our day, every day, and demand politicians do the same, or run them off before they get on the ballot in the first place.

I blame myself.

I think the protests are awesome and it's great it started so soon. Fuck ton better than all the crying. Let Murica know he tries some stupid shit, something gonna get burned down.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Not Bob

Upon reflection, having previously read the book, I should have realized that it was a Not Great idea. I mean, the whole premise of TTSS is that there's a high-level mole working for the Russians against his country to subvert freedom and democracy and all. I blame the second Manhattan for my mistake.

It's a very good movie, though. Gary Oldman was amazing as George Smiley.

If you ever get a chance, see the old PBS mini-series. When I read the books, I see Alec Guinness whenever Smiley speaks.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Now read this: http://www.economist.com/news/united...inee-trump-and

And then this: Taking Trump voters’ concerns seriously means listening to what they’re actually saying.

[soup sandwich]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Look, many of us have moved. But a lot of the people I know who stuck around the dead-end all white town I grew up in had good reasons to stay - a sick parent or sibling, a family business or farm, etc.

Look, I have doubts that "a lot" is that many people. For example, in the 2000 census of East Liverpool, OH (mentioned in Sebby's link), there were 13,089 people, 5,261 households, and 3,424 families residing in the city. That's an awful lot of sick parents and family businesses keeping those folks there. How many thousands are just hanging around? Waiting for what? I want to understand this part.

Somewhere in their family tree they have an ancestor who hopped on a boat with all their possessions in a bag and started a new life in the US. These folks won't even hop a greyhound to Bismarck. How come?

I take some solace in that the 2010 census shows a reduction to 11,195 people, 4,601 households, and 2,892 families residing in the city.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Adder

That was better than I thought it would be at the outset, but I have to express frustration with "go to a town that no longer has a reason to exist and see how bad it is."

Our ranch is near two of those towns. The only reason they still are on the map is because of the influx of Hispanics from Mexico (including our ranch manager and his family) about 30 years ago that came in and injected youth, money and labor and entrepreneurial growth in them. David, our ranch manager, has a side construction and hay making business. Manuel in one of those towns is building a THIRD restaurant that'll open in January. There are a lot more of those types of businesses. When I first started looking at the local paper when I was ten or so, the sports photos prominently displayed on the front page of the Giddings Times every week were full of white kids. Now they're white and brown.

These towns would be dead if it weren't for the influx of brown people with last names like mine.

My husband is there right now, and he went into town today to see how the pulse of small town Texas was. The hardware store was unremarkable. The grocery store was full of blacks and hispanics that had no real reaction at all. At Walmart, he overheard conversations about church.

Fayette County (where the ranch is)
Donald J. Trump / Mike PenceREP 8,648 78.16%
Hillary Clinton / Tim Kaine DEM 2,127 19.22%
Gary Johnson / William Weld LIB 209 1.88%
Jill Stein / Ajamu Baraka GRN 45

Lee County (closet town)
Donald J. Trump / Mike PenceREP 4,996 76.49%
Hillary Clinton / Tim Kaine DEM 1,372 21.00%
Gary Johnson / William Weld LIB 126 1.92%
Jill Stein / Ajamu Baraka GRN 28 0.42%

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

Bernie wouldn't have won. But I'm beginning to wonder if we deserved to. Everywhere I looked on the news last night and this morning, I saw the kind of behavior that had me scared as hell of Trump winning. Riots in thee streets. I wanted to puke. Liberals turning into the kind of lawless yahoos that swept Trump to victory. If Trump's real campaign slogan was "Making America White Again" (and it was), the Democrats' reaction is Resurrect the Weather Underground.

Every single person in America of voting age is guilty of putting us into the shit show we now find ourselves in. Democrats are burning and looting like the rule of law, something we were so fucking sanctimonious about, means nothing. Republicans who one by one tried to distance themselves from President Pussygrab are sniffing at his tail like eager puppies.

We have four years of deconstructing America to dread because neither party could manage to get enough people interested enough to put up a candidate who was both electable and not psychotic. So instead, we got Hillary, who most people in America just plain [I]didn't trust[I] and the poster child for bad behavior by someone with the mentality of a schoolyard bully.

Yes, Hillary had some good policies, plans, and experience. But most of America neither liked nor trusted her. And yes, Trump is a racist, sexist, ball of unchecked white privilege. But he gave all the people who used to have to hide in country clubs and dive bars permission to spew their hate in the streets.

After seeing Democrats stopping traffic in LA and Chicago and burning and looting in New York and New Orleans, it's clear that we really aren't all that much better than them.

Note that I'm not accusing anybody on this board of behaving like animals. I'm just observing that we are lying with the same dogs as the Republicans and we have apparently picked up the same fleas.

Stevenson was right. In a democracy, people pretty much get the government they deserve. Maybe instead of pissing and moaning, or thinking we're any better than anyone else, all of us can actually step it up, put what we stand for in our day, every day, and demand politicians do the same, or run them off before they get on the ballot in the first place.

I blame myself.

I live in New York and have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. There was a march up Broadway and then Sixth Avenue. I work on Broadway. I have heard of absolutely no looting or rioting anywhere.

TM

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

Bernie wouldn't have won. But I'm beginning to wonder if we deserved to. Everywhere I looked on the news last night and this morning, I saw the kind of behavior that had me scared as hell of Trump winning. Riots in thee streets. I wanted to puke. Liberals turning into the kind of lawless yahoos that swept Trump to victory. If Trump's real campaign slogan was "Making America White Again" (and it was), the Democrats' reaction is Resurrect the Weather Underground.

Jesus fucking christ. A man whose rhetoric present an existential threat to all manner of oppressed people is now empowered to take action and your panties are in the bunch about a wee bit of protest? Come on, man.

Also, the Weather Underground (and many others) exploded a whole bunch of bombs. Exactly where have there been bombings this week??

After seeing Democrats stopping traffic in LA and Chicago and burning and looting in New York and New Orleans, it's clear that we really aren't all that much better than them.

Yes, property damage is just like rounding up all the brown people, stopping and frisking all of the black people and banning Muslim immigration.

ETA: Or painting swastikas on things. Or chanting "build the wall" at your Mexican classmates. Vandalizing a school bathroom with "Tump" and "N*ggers". Or telling the Mexican girl she has to sit in the back of the bus now.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

After seeing Democrats stopping traffic in LA and Chicago and burning and looting in New York and New Orleans, it's clear that we really aren't all that much better than them.

I missed the burning and looting. Reports?

I saw some tasteless Trump pinatas and a trump effigy that got burned.

I also saw some stopping traffic, which is annoying and does no good but that's an inconvenience not violence.

Most of what I saw was peaceable.

I'll let others recite what some of the Trumpsters have done in the last two days.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Adder

Jesus fucking christ. A man whose rhetoric present an existential threat to all manner of oppressed people is now empowered to take action and your panties are in the bunch about a wee bit of protest? Come on, man.

Also, the Weather Underground (and many others) exploded a whole bunch of bombs. Exactly where have there been bombings this week??



Yes, property damage is just like rounding up all the brown people, stopping and frisking all of the black people and banning Muslim immigration.

ETA: Or painting swastikas on things. Or chanting "build the wall" at your Mexican classmates. Vandalizing a school bathroom with "Tump" and "N*ggers". Or telling the Mexican girl she has to sit in the back of the bus now.

Funny. Nobody's delivered my national identity card yet. But maybe it's just that I live in the country where I can hide safely among the rednecks, most of whom have been surprisingly quiet abut the election so far.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I live in New York and have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. There was a march up Broadway and then Sixth Avenue. I work on Broadway. I have heard of absolutely no looting or rioting anywhere.

A Hispanic co-worker of my wife's got assaulted at work yesterday by a guy who said he didn't have to be politically correct anymore.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Our ranch is near two of those towns. The only reason they still are on the map is because of the influx of Hispanics from Mexico (including our ranch manager and his family) about 30 years ago that came in and injected youth, money and labor and entrepreneurial growth in them. David, our ranch manager, has a side construction and hay making business. Manuel in one of those towns is building a THIRD restaurant that'll open in January. There are a lot more of those types of businesses. When I first started looking at the local paper when I was ten or so, the sports photos prominently displayed on the front page of the Giddings Times every week were full of white kids. Now they're white and brown.

These towns would be dead if it weren't for the influx of brown people with last names like mine.

My husband is there right now, and he went into town today to see how the pulse of small town Texas was. The hardware store was unremarkable. The grocery store was full of blacks and hispanics that had no real reaction at all. At Walmart, he overheard conversations about church.

Fayette County (where the ranch is)
Donald J. Trump / Mike PenceREP 8,648 78.16%
Hillary Clinton / Tim Kaine DEM 2,127 19.22%
Gary Johnson / William Weld LIB 209 1.88%
Jill Stein / Ajamu Baraka GRN 45

Lee County (closet town)
Donald J. Trump / Mike PenceREP 4,996 76.49%
Hillary Clinton / Tim Kaine DEM 1,372 21.00%
Gary Johnson / William Weld LIB 126 1.92%
Jill Stein / Ajamu Baraka GRN 28 0.42%

You got to move out to the ranch and run for Congress in two years. You may not win, but get 'em all registered and get some political stuff going.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I live in New York and have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. There was a march up Broadway and then Sixth Avenue. I work on Broadway. I have heard of absolutely no looting or rioting anywhere.

TM

I was going on the basis of CBS morning news. If they got it wrong, I stand corrected. But they had footage of NOLA.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

These towns would be dead if it weren't for the influx of brown people with last names like mine.

The sad irony is that latino immigration is great for American overall and rural America in particular.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

I was going on the basis of CBS morning news. If they got it wrong, I stand corrected. But they had footage of NOLA.

Why is anyone still watching TV news?