Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

It's not the best of strategies, but I understand the frustration after other avenues have been shut out, and if the elected officials haven't dealt with worse they should count themselves lucky. But not jackassery of any scale, certainly not on the same scale as middle of the night police raids, violated TROs, and pepper spraying of kids. More like pesty than jackassery.

Of course, if they did this at 2:00 am at Bloomberg's house, well, then I'd just call it justice.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

Peace, brother. Why don't you model an ideal poster, just so we can all see what one looks like?

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

To repeat and expand on what I said over on the other board:

Those people are jackasses. In a city of a million people, to say nothing of the rest of the Valley, they have a small coterie of whackadoos. It's not because they are being suppressed in any meaningful sense. If they were permitted to occupy a piece of land in front of City Hall, no one would notice. If they want to be heard, they should organize.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

Let me clarify:

Those people may be jackasses. The conduct reported upon in Atticus's story was not jackassery. I don't have a problem with protesting at a public officials' house per se, although it's an easy place to go over the line. But there was nothing in that article that indicated that lines have been crossed.

I'm really not sure what you mean by "organize" though, and they seem to have found a way to be heard.

Finally, if no one would notice them occupying a small piece of land in front of City Hall, wouldn't city officials have been far smarter to let them do so?

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

I don't know these people, but we may have a definitional problem.

On a scale of 1 to 10, say 1 is NotBob, 4 is Hank, and 8 is Thottam, where would you put "Jackassery"?

Jackassery
 

I do have a problem with protesting at a public official's house. People have families and neighbors who don't deserve the fall out (much less the ease with which lines may be crossed) from a public protest.

I think it is jackassery. If you have a problem with a public official, protest at the person's office or as close as you can get. Don't take it to someone's home.

Re: Jackassery
 

But you live where people are nice. I'll bet you put jackassery sub-Hank on the scale, where in NYC, Hank wouldn't even rank a jackass wannabe.

I think you need thick skin to be an elected official (college president, a few other jobs). Back when I worked in politics, that would have been one step above the fake-bomb-threat (a weekly occurance), and certainly wouldn't have been as bad as much of what I saw. Peksy, annoying, but fairly pedestrian. Be glad they put up with it, but don't think that one is anything out of the ordinary.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

I do not see how protesting at officials' houses will help the movement advance its goals. It's designed to be a pain in the ass. Which is not to say that the city shouldn't have let them camp downtown.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

I don't follow the disconnect between these two statements.

Re: Jackassery
 

Elected officials may need thick skins but their families and neighbors should not need them. If I lived next door to an official and protesters blocked the street or sidewalk protesting there, I'd turn my hose on them -- even if I agreed with the cause, don't bring it to my neighborhood.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

I don't understand why the elected officials haven't dispersed these protests yet. Certainly they can't be properly permitted, can they?

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

No, because a tenured professor is less likely susceptible to an irresponsible violent outburst than an 18-yo student.

But you know this, you're just being a schmuck.

Re: Jackassery
 

That's why it's ineffective to protest like that; it even gets sympathy for elected officials. Not many people realize most politicians are on the job 24/7 and the family is just happy they've brought their work home to do and aren't still stuck in the office.

But, yeah, sucks for the neighbors.

Re: Jackassery
 

Yes, we wouldn't want you to be inconvenienced. That's all the really matters, afterall.

Re: Jackassery
 

There is no reason to protest at someone's house other than to piss off their neighbors and make the person's family feel threatened. That's jackassery.

Using RT's example -- would you feel the same about a protest at an abortion provider's home? If it's wrong for the one, it's wrong for the other.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

In the United States, you think one needs a permit to stage a political protest?

Wow, you may be right.

Re: Jackassery
 

There is a difference between elected officials and doctors.

It may be that people don't want to know how much shit elected officials take. But if I ever stand for office, please, tell opponents I'd much rather have them picketing my house for something I actually did than lying about me or spreading false rumors, both things that happen every day in politics. The US Chamber funded ads in the last election were great instances of jackassery - because they are misleading and nasty. That is real jackassery. Many, many times worse that a few pickets by your house.

So I'd give the head of the US chamber the award for jackassery; these guys don't even get a nomination.

Re: Jackassery
 

Both doctors and elected officials have offices where protests about their professional activities should be conducted. Going to someone's home is jackassery.

And yes, lying about people is bad, but that's off topic. Stay with the hypothetical!

Re: Jackassery
 

Under your scenario, being an elected official means dealing with jackassery 24/7 and everyone you deal with, almost without exception, is a jackass. In a democracy, you don't just put up with but even listen to pests.

I favor higher standards for jackassery.

I think we're in agreement, though, that it's not nice and not effective.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

one guy pitched a tent in the mayor's driveway. ain't no permit for that.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Re: Jackassery
 

I don't know that inconvenience is the same as threatened (which, by the way, is the difference that Atticus keeps missing when he brings up abortion protesters), but yes. The reason to do it there is to put greater pressure on the person in question, which is, after all, the point of a protest.

Context matters. I do not have a problem with a peaceful candlelight vigil at an abortion provider's home, if that's all it is. But those protests are infused with the history of violence against abortion providers by anti-abortion activists.

Re: Memo to the NYPD
 

Here's a really good post on the change in police tactics, by Alexis Madrigal in The Atlantic.

Re: Jackassery
 

It's not uncommon for people to protest at the University president's home. Is that jackassery? Does it matter that public dollars pay for it?

ETA: Also, is it jackassery to talk politics with your legislator if you see them in the grocery store? How about if he's out in the yard raking leaves?

It just seems to me that you don't stop being a public official because you're at home, and it's fair game communicate about public issues with a public official at their home, although different rules apply as to what are acceptable means (i.e., a drum circle might be fine on the government plaza but not in the neighborhood).

Re: Jackassery
 

One particular chancellor now has much bigger problems. Her students are launching a general strike and reoccupying the quad and her options re use of police force are very limited. Luckily, the strike doesn't start until after the birds, pies and shopping is done, so maybe they'll forget about it by then.

Re: Jackassery
 

How would you feel about a protest at Officer Pepper-Spray's home?

Re: Jackassery
 

Same thing. He acted like an assjack (worse, actually) but that doesn 't excuse reciprocal assjackery. And home should be off limits.

On the other hand, I wouldn't object to his getting blasted with short range pepper spray.

Re: Jackassery
 

Assualting him with a weapon would be better than peacefully assembling outside his home?

You have weird priorities.

Re: Jackassery
 

I still don't understand why you feel this way. So, serious question: why? What's different about the sidewalk in front of his house?

Is it that you think that's inherently threatening (you seemed to imply there was a threat involved earlier)? If that's the case, why? Doesn't the threat come from what is being done any not where?

Is it inconvenience to the neighbors? And if so, why is that inconvenience different from inconvenience to his neighbors at work?

Is it the presence of family? But aren't they going to be particularly tuned into any criticism of the elected official, regardless of where it takes place?

I still don't see what's inherently assjackery about the location per se. I'd say that a protest there would need to be quieter and more respectful to avoid jackassery, but if it is, I don't see the issue that concerns you.

Re: Jackassery
 

I understand; my wife might well agree with her, but my wife would object (and has objected) strenuously to me running for just about anything, because she understands what it would entail.

I think this is more objectionable to the general public than to those who have actually jumped into politics.

doubly topical!
 

one more
 

Re: one more
 

Wasn't Penske all upset over that on FB the other day?

Re: Jackassery
 

It's partly because I see home as a sanctuary, partly because I don't think a public employee's family should be fair game at home, and partly because one's neighbors shouldn't be disturbed in their homes simply because someone thinks demonstrating at the office isn't putting enough pressure on the public employee.

Look -- it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. You don't have to agree but I think it's a crappy thing to do.

ETA: And since this all started with the article Hank posted on the FB, let's just see how quiet and respectfully these demonstrators you don't think are jackasses are behaving:

Shouting at night and putting a tent in someone's driveway -- that should be jackass per se.

Re: Jackassery
 

I agree that the mere fact that someone is a government official (or an abortion provider, for sure) doesn't make their home fair game.

But I disagree with respect to someone like Officer Pepper Spray. When you assault a group of people who don't threaten you, then you or your cohorts lie about it publicly to blame the protestors, and then go on paid leave and retreat to your home, well, fuck it. All bets are off. He's lucky the crowd didn't rush his fat ass.

UCDavis Chancellor & Hank -- Separated at Birth?
 

According to the SF Chron:

But still -- they could have done something to deserve it before all the cameras came out.... Right???

Re: Jackassery
 

Of course.

Shouting/making noise late at night is absolutely jackass behavior (although note that this says "night" which might mean 6pm, which I wouldn't say is jackass per se). The tent sounds like a stunt to me, and, of course, trespassing.

Re: Jackassery
 

I'm betting it's some of the cheapest and most favorable publicity the elected official has gotten this year.

I think we've beat this particular jackass long past its final breath. But here are some of the biggest jackasses I've been exposed to since this exchange started:

(1) Supercommittee
(2) Investment Bankers
(3) Megyn Kelly and Bill O'Reilly
(4) BMW Drivers
(5) Elevator talkers

I would not protest at any of their homes, but I would be perfectly willing to pepper spray the majority of them. Maybe Fugee's not so far off in her priorities.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

The Amazon reviews are fun.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources...EGYPT-PROTESTS

We haven't noticed what's happening in Egypt, presumably because they've left the Israeli Embassy alone for the moment.