Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I beg to differ: (1) It is PLF, and not I, who is (are? fuck . . .) phoning it in today, and (2) the artfully deployed "wanker" smiley is the absolute unsurpassed heighth and breadth of devastating wit on your more modern internet-type chatting boards.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Have they said the same about your siblings?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Ty's dad is Jewish, right? That means I have exactly as many Jewish siblings as he does.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I dunno; he said he had more than you, so at least a half, no?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Outable! Hey, can I get a mod to delete this?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

translation: I have no clue about Jewish law

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Whiff.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

not true, unless the median sock here knows the rule.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I thought the median sock here had a Jewish relative (or at least best friend)? No?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Seems like Bibi knew this was the US position: note url.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Rapture fixation isn't religiously motivated. I see a two-fold pathology behind End of Days types:

1. Desire to be significant. If you can't be significant, the next best thing is to live through a significant event.
2. Equalization in Loserdom. My life's decent, maybe even good, or spectacular. Yours sucks. But if the world's ending tomorrow - Cazart! - life suddenly sucks for both of us.

In regard to the second pathology noted, End of Days fanatics are a lot like the Communists/Socialists/Librrruls they claim to abhor when discussing politics. But that's a whole other post.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

The 1967 borders were those used in Bush's two state plans.

I know. I know... It's Krauthammer, who's always carrying Obama's water.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I just the link you posted. It's the first time I've read a linked article here. I take it you didn't read it?

Bush said "67 is a start" Obama said "67" plus some linking land, i suppose to allow the supply of rockets between the two sides if they blow up too many Israeli children on one side or the other?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

cite, please.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

You didn't read it ether then? Obama said 67 plus mutually agreed upon swaps.

The "linking land" thing is conjecture by Krauthammer (I don't know what Obama meant by contiguous).

I did wonder, though, how Krauthammer transited so quickly from "you can't negotiate with people who haven't pre-recognized your state's right to exist" to "you can't expect one side to pre-recognize your state's right to exist by agreeing not to build any more settlements on your land." I suspect he truly does not see the tension.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Oh, so it's this "linking land" that has everybody's panties in a twist.

If Bush ran this plan, there'd be some controversy, but not to the level we've thus seen. Nowhere near it. Somewhere, somehow, an "Obama doesn't care about Israel" narrative took hold. That's the heat behind the incensed rhetoric here.

ETA: Personally, I think the GOP's efforts to use this to flip Jews to the Republican side is a whole lot of wasted effort. There is no more shopworn stereotype than the Jewish Always-Democratic Voter.* I don't think any Jew I know hasn't already been voting GOP for years.

*The Always-Democrat Irish stereotype is close. (As if we're all union card holders... "Pass me a pint, to forget all the pain. Woe is the working man's life!")

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Of course he doesn't. He's a muslin. They stick together.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Well, Obama is *clearly* calling for a land link from the west bank to gaza which would divide Israel in two. Because that makes sooooo much sense.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

That's what Hank meant? Jesus, how did I not catch that? (Typing when I should have been more closely reading.)

That's just out and out bullshit. No President alive would ever advocate cutting the country in half. Even the rabid Anti-Obama people on TV weren't suggesting an actual link was planned. The "cutting in half" thing is a conceit, recognizing Israel would have a lot of its current mass carved out, and be vulnerable to an attack chopping it in two at its thinnest point. But nobody - fucking nobody - has suggested there'd be a non-contiguous Israel. Bullshit, bullshit, and... bullshit.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Not mass that it currently claims.

That's right, but one of them has to be non-contiguous, unless you've got an alternative plan for the Gaza Strip.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I wouldn't even suggest that I know what Hank is talking about, as he is so far ahead of me intellectually (tho apparently not so far that Less can suggest I am Hank's sock).

But I don't know what else "some linking land, i suppose to allow the supply of rockets between the two sides" could mean besides an actual land link between gaza and the west bank which could be accomplished three ways: cutting off Israel from the Med, from the Red Sea or cutting it in half.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I'm the one who doesn't cliam to be well-read, and all I've read is that blog you posted which implied that was what obama was driving at. And like Adder said one of the two will be divided.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Maybe Hank's other girlfriend has a string theory based suggestion that would allow both to be contiguous.

Let me go on record as being against any arrangement that makes gaza and the west bank contiguous, even by extra-dimensional means.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

You make no distinction between a nationally syndicated (conservative) columnist and the blogs you deride?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Please allow me to whiff, but I'm not against any arrangement that is agreed upon between Israel and the Palestinians.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Pali-lover.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Option C: Endless Negotiations.

Every President has to pay lip service to idea we'll cure the Israel/Palestine problem. I think Obama's playing tough with Israel to curry some favor with the Arab street. He knows no plan will ever go anywhere because there will never be a non-contiguous Israel. But we own Isreal no matter what - ally by necessity... can't survive without us. So Obama gains nothing by rolling over for them. In a doomed negotiation where the only benefit he can get is with the Arab street, rational thinking dictates he play to that audience.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

It certainly won't end if it never (re)starts.

I don't think there's all that much upside on the Arab Street, though, and it's a bit hard to see it being outweighed by the potential downside in domestic politics.

I'm not optimistic about fruitful negotiations in the near term either, but these things have a way of being unpredictable.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

we are so hated as to make currying this favor the pointless effort. look at public opinion polls in the Arab world. Obama ain't getting anywhere with the Arab street.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

the "blogs" I deride are when people post someone else's opinion as fact. I once took the opinions of Rev. Camping as truth, but now I even doubt those:(

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

That's unreasonably cynical. The problematic issue isn't contiguity of gaza and WB and discontinuity of Israel (I think that's a paranoid's fever dream), it's the "right of return", AND the implications of possible Israeli citizenship for any Palis, AND a (non-absurd) expectation by Israel that the Palis will re-trade and move the goalposts after any settlement, no matter how beneficial to the Palis (i.e., Israel could give them Jerusalem and everything south to the Red Sea, the Palis would still complain about not have a good Med port and demand more, more, more).

Not to mention the threshold issue of surrendering to Hamas, who still deems themselves to be seeking the total destruction of Israel.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

did giving them Gaza help calm things down?
did the IRA resolution come out of nowhere? I kind of think it did. Maybe if the Palis get a leader that truly leads and is interested in peace instead of power?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I wouldn't say out of nowhere. In particular on the IRA/Sinn Fein side there was a long and slow evolution away from violence and toward politics, but I think just how far that had come was kept pretty quiet. I would certainly have to guess McGuinness's credibility as someone who allegedly personally tried the route of violence was a big part of that.

That coupled with plenty of behind the scenes assurances and a whole lot of political courage from David Trimble, and David Hume and three governments trying to act as honest brokers, made things go fairly quickly once they sat down to talk.

ETA: Wikipedia reminds me that it wasn't all the quick.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

fuck that. if I was netanayoo I'd be all "The US should go back to pre-1959 borders motherfucker."

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

What land did we conquer in/after 1959? Are you suggesting we go back to the moon and take the flag down?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

A tunnel, or a really long bridge.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

The Israeli's have bad experiences with Pali tunnels, so I didn't consider that a serious option.

I do want to reiterate my opposition to a land-based connection b/t Gaza and the west bank, even if achieved by extra-dimensional means.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

There are four big problems in getting to a resolution of the conflicts between the Israelis, the Palestinians, and the larger middle eastern world:

(1) Israel
(2) The Palestinians
(3) The rest of the Middle East
(4) The lack of an honest broker to play mediator

O'Bama can only affect one of those directly. The other three, well, they have to grow into it. If he can help us get closer to #4, or resurrect the concept of the quartet as an honest broker, he'll have done just about all he can.

And, yes, having the US behave as an honest broker costs key votes in key states. Most US presidents wait until their second term to try to do anything about it.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I kind of think your head is sort of up your ass on the history of the GFA, but Des Dalton has my proxy on that topic in any event. For the two situations to be comparable, however, among many other things you'd have to have the Israeli govt tell its settlers that they're going to have to share power in an "occupied territories" government with Fatah/Hamas, which I'm not holding my breath.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

you don't have to be mean. for civilized people like me what happens to the Irish is about as important as whether a bug I wash down the drain lives or drowns. In sum, I couldn't waste a brain cell storing the detail.

I just meant that it seemed the IRA thing would never end that it did.