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-   -   My God, you are an idiot. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861)

Hank Chinaski 06-28-2011 07:37 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 454751)
He must have thought your devotion to the written word would make you a strong candidate.

At the time I hadn't been published. If he was making the appointment today I'm sure he would not have let me defer to you.

sebastian_dangerfield 06-29-2011 10:21 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 454709)
Lovely. I'm glad you want to debate my footnotes, and hope you will enjoy doing so.

Do any of the free speech right wingers (e.g., not hank) have thoughts on the Arizona decision? Sebby? Less? Penske? Spanky?

Haven't read it. But don't call me a free speech right winger. I do not agree with allowing corporations to donate directly, and I never saw McCain Feingold as an intrusion on First Amendment rights. The disparity in resources available to individuals, on one hand, and corporations and unions, on the other, alone provides adequate support for the proposition organizations should be treated differently.

And please, nobody reply to this with that stupid, "Corporations and unions were already getting around McCain Feingold, and MF was precluding speech from grass roots activist groups it was never intended to curtail." That's a bullshit rebuttal and you know it.

The greatest perversions in the governance of the republic accrue from the infection of our processes by corporatist, and union, interests. Campaign Finance isn't a right or left issue. Those of us who support it do so because we care about keeping some level of economic vibrancy in this country, and want to avoid having us turn into a fucking crony capitalist/union parasite kleptocracy. There is no defense of unbridled corporate or union spending on campaigns. None.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-29-2011 10:51 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 454754)
At the time I hadn't been published. If he was making the appointment today I'm sure he would not have let me defer to you.

Hank, it's common to be very excited after you get your first work printed in some obscure place, and we all understand this and many of us have been through it, but this has really gone one for a while. Let us know when you get a world cat entry, or, even better, when the LoC catalogues one of your books. Best of luck, we're proud of you guy.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-29-2011 10:53 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 454756)
Haven't read it. But don't call me a free speech right winger. I do not agree with allowing corporations to donate directly, and I never saw McCain Feingold as an intrusion on First Amendment rights. The disparity in resources available to individuals, on one hand, and corporations and unions, on the other, alone provides adequate support for the proposition organizations should be treated differently.

And please, nobody reply to this with that stupid, "Corporations and unions were already getting around McCain Feingold, and MF was precluding speech from grass roots activist groups it was never intended to curtail." That's a bullshit rebuttal and you know it.

The greatest perversions in the governance of the republic accrue from the infection of our processes by corporatist, and union, interests. Campaign Finance isn't a right or left issue. Those of us who support it do so because we care about keeping some level of economic vibrancy in this country, and want to avoid having us turn into a fucking crony capitalist/union parasite kleptocracy. There is no defense of unbridled corporate or union spending on campaigns. None.


OK, agree with you on all of this, and interested in what you think of Arizona. The basic holding was that a state using public finance to equalize a playing field interferred with free speech because it provided a disincentive to a self-funding candidate to spend money, since the other guy would get to spend something like 94% as much up to a threshold.

Hank Chinaski 06-29-2011 10:59 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 454761)
Hank, it's common to be very excited after you get your first work printed in some obscure place, and we all understand this and many of us have been through it, but this has really gone one for a while. Let us know when you get a world cat entry, or, even better, when the LoC catalogues one of your books. Best of luck, we're proud of you guy.

I quit writing "whiff" but if i hadn't quit i would write it now.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-29-2011 11:05 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 454763)
I quit writing "whiff" but if i hadn't quit i would write it now.

ok, I won't hint nicely.

Hank, this has become another uber-tedious routine. Get some new shit.

Hank Chinaski 06-29-2011 11:12 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 454764)
ok, I won't hint nicely.

Hank, this has become another uber-tedious routine. Get some new shit.

1) post hoc- you whiffed

2)publishing fiction today is insanely competitive so it is something to brag about- it isn't like in Mad Men- but,

3) Ty brought it up.

I was in Waltham a week ago (in at 10PM out at 1 the next day). But I was really surprised that there really aren't decent running routes, like I was by the Cambridge Reservoir and could not believe there wasn't a path around it- I thought that would be like the East Coast equivalent of Colorado as to health

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-29-2011 11:24 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 454765)
1) post hoc- you whiffed

2)publishing fiction today is insanely competitive so it is something to brag about- it isn't like in Mad Men- but,

3) Ty brought it up.

I was in Waltham a week ago (in at 10PM out at 1 the next day). But I was really surprised that there really aren't decent running routes, like I was by the Cambridge Reservoir and could not believe there wasn't a path around it- I thought that would be like the East Coast equivalent of Colorado as to health

From Waltham head toward Weston and Lincoln. You get to open fields and conservation areas with paths pretty quickly. I do it on bike, though, not foot.

A lot of the small reservoirs limit direct access. Don't want too many college frat parties by them with kids swimming in them and fouling up the water.

Did you try "Map my run"?

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 11:42 AM

Kucinich
 
Can we deny him re-entry? Or send him to Gitmo, or something?

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 11:44 AM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 454745)
I like to encourage that sort of thing, but he needs my help to get to the post office, too.

USPS will pick up packages. And anything that fits in an envelope is easy, as the regular mail carrier should just take it. Postage can be printed online, and priority mail packaging delivered. No need to go to the post office, really.

Adder 06-29-2011 11:47 AM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 454767)
Can we deny him re-entry? Or send him to Gitmo, or something?

Has he done something other than be a harmless lefty clown? I guess there was a olive pit law suit, which was kind of annoying, but I don't think it's terrorism.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would really care what he does or says in Syria.

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 11:49 AM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454769)
Has he done something other than be a harmless lefty clown? I guess there was a olive pit law suit, which was kind of annoying, but I don't think it's terrorism.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would really care what he does or says in Syria.

He's lending aid and comfort to terrorists.

Can we at least kick him out of the Dem caucus? He's like the DU of Congress.

Adder 06-29-2011 12:03 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 454770)
He's lending aid and comfort to terrorists.

How? I just saw the Syrian state press quoting him praising Assad and saying that some in the press want to present a false picture (of Assad's brutal crackdown on opposition).

Quote:

Can we at least kick him out of the Dem caucus? He's like the DU of Congress.
If you or I were in Congress, we could talk about it. I'd probably say that's a bad idea though, given that there will be times when we want/need his vote.

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 12:14 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454771)
How? I just saw the Syrian state press quoting him praising Assad and saying that some in the press want to present a false picture (of Assad's brutal crackdown on opposition).

Syria has been a designated state-sponsor of terrorism since 1979--the longest-standing current member of that elite foursome. Praise for the leader of a terrorist nation is what, if not aid and comfort for a terrorist? Would you feel the same way if he'd gone to Pakistan last summer and said nice things about bin Laden?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454771)
If you or I were in Congress, we could talk about it. I'd probably say that's a bad idea though, given that there will be times when we want/need his vote.

What? He's going to vote with the Rs? He's just going to not vote?

Adder 06-29-2011 12:22 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 454772)
Syria has been a designated state-sponsor of terrorism since 1979--the longest-standing current member of that elite foursome. Praise for the leader of a terrorist nation is what, if not aid and comfort for a terrorist? Would you feel the same way if he'd gone to Pakistan last summer and said nice things about bin Laden?

Um. Yeah. "Aid and comfort" can't possibly mean "saying nice things," can it? How does that square in any way with the first amendment?

Would you have Ironweed Gitmo'd if he were to say, "Up the IRA?"

Quote:

What? He's going to vote with the Rs? He's just going to not vote?
You don't remember him threatening to vote against Obamacare for the lack of public option? Yes, he could vote against the Dems claiming that legislation was insufficiently liberal.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-29-2011 12:30 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 454770)
He's lending aid and comfort to terrorists.

Can we at least kick him out of the Dem caucus? He's like the DU of Congress.

I'm in favor of this, especially if we can ultimately get his wife to replace him.

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 12:34 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454773)
Um. Yeah. "Aid and comfort" can't possibly mean "saying nice things," can it? How does that square in any way with the first amendment?

Would you have Ironweed Gitmo'd if he were to say, "Up the IRA?"

It can mean anything the Prez wants it to mean!

As to 'weed, I wouldn't, but Hank prolly would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454773)
You don't remember him threatening to vote against Obamacare for the lack of public option? Yes, he could vote against the Dems claiming that legislation was insufficiently liberal.

He does that shit *while* part of the caucus. He's the equivalent of the wacky Tea Partiers in the R caucus (note, 1 Kucinich, several wacky TP'ers), both serving as an impediment to reasonable legislative compromise.

Sidd Finch 06-29-2011 12:38 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 454764)
Hank, this has become another uber-tedious routine. Get some new shit.

I go away for a few weeks, and Hank gets a new routine that turns tedious?

Wow. Imagine that.

Sidd Finch 06-29-2011 12:40 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 454772)
Syria has been a designated state-sponsor of terrorism since 1979--the longest-standing current member of that elite foursome. Praise for the leader of a terrorist nation is what, if not aid and comfort for a terrorist?


One can practically envision the masses lining up to join Assad's cause, now that Kucinch's brilliant words have paved the way.

Adder 06-29-2011 12:51 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 454775)
He does that shit *while* part of the caucus.

He ultimately voted for Obamacare, but might not have if he was tossed out.

He's probably going to be redistricted out of office anyway.

Adder 06-29-2011 12:58 PM

I think it architectural
 
Hey, Sebby, here's Scott Sumner on lack of distinction between structural and cyclical unemployment (among other things).

And here's your boy Tyler Cowen agreeing, but seeming to want to walk back on the notion that anything can be done to help.

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 01:00 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 454777)
One can practically envision the masses lining up to join Assad's cause, now that Kucinch's brilliant words have paved the way.

Can we have Slave or Hank or P check DU for the response from the loony left? I'm curious about their rationalizations on behalf of Kucinch.

Replaced_Texan 06-29-2011 01:21 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 454774)
I'm in favor of this, especially if we can ultimately get his wife to replace him.

My fiance's father was a city manager in Cleveland back in the 70s, and apparently young Dennis used to come by some of the parties when he was in his early 20s / teens and was generally sort of a dweeb and hanger on.

Then as mayor, he went (in my fiance's opinion) on to destroy Cleveland.

My bleeding heart liberal fiance thinks very, very little of Denis Kucinich.

Gattigap 06-29-2011 01:28 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Cletus, Wonk --

I was not surprised to hear that Blago got convicted, but the interesting factoid I learned from Jon Stewart last night was that four out of the last seven Illinois governors have now been convicted of felonies. When you think about it, impressive even by Chicago standards.

Gatti

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-29-2011 01:49 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattigap (Post 454782)
Cletus, Wonk --

I was not surprised to hear that Blago got convicted, but the interesting factoid I learned from Jon Stewart last night was that four out of the last seven Illinois governors have now been convicted of felonies. When you think about it, impressive even by Chicago standards.

Gatti

Our last three speakers are all felons; the feds will get the current one eventually, too. Four of seven? Let's see an unbroken streak.

Adder 06-29-2011 01:49 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 454781)
Then as mayor, he went (in my fiance's opinion) on to destroy Cleveland.

Just out of curiousity, what did Dennis do that caused as much (or more) damage as the decline in manufacturing in the rust belt?

Adder 06-29-2011 01:50 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattigap (Post 454782)
Cletus, Wonk --

I was not surprised to hear that Blago got convicted, but the interesting factoid I learned from Jon Stewart last night was that four out of the last seven Illinois governors have now been convicted of felonies. When you think about it, impressive even by Chicago standards.

Gatti

Only a matter of time before they convict the Chicago-thug politician in the White House. AmIright??

Adder 06-29-2011 01:55 PM

Keeping score
 
The highest court to rule so far says the ACA is okay.'

Hi, Hank!

sebastian_dangerfield 06-29-2011 02:02 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 454762)
OK, agree with you on all of this, and interested in what you think of Arizona. The basic holding was that a state using public finance to equalize a playing field interferred with free speech because it provided a disincentive to a self-funding candidate to spend money, since the other guy would get to spend something like 94% as much up to a threshold.

Ty's initial comment on this can stand in for mine. Following the court's logic is basically saying, private money should decide races for public office. But not public money. It's absurd, and I don't understand how it can be squared with the constitutionally blessed scheme for providing public funding to Presidential candidates who seek it. But I'm sure Scalia covered it somewhere.

We've sold this country to corporatists. It's a bad fucking joke.

Hank Chinaski 06-29-2011 02:09 PM

Re: Keeping score
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454786)

2-1!!!! bet you're relieved!

if I was an appeals court judge I'd just affirm w/o an opinion- it's going to DC

Adder 06-29-2011 02:13 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 454787)
I don't understand how it can be squared with the constitutionally blessed scheme for providing public funding to Presidential candidates who seek it.

That was my thought yesterday, that this necessarily implies you can't have any public funding, but I don't think it's quite right. The "burden" that Scalia and company saw was the fact that spending more of your money earned additional money for the other guy, thus creating a "disincentive" to "speaking" by spending more. That "burden" isn't there with a lump sum campaign subsidy.

Which means that the way to solve the majority's objection is just make the lump sum bigger, and big enough it won't get drowned out. That sounds both desirable and fiscally feasible, right?

Adder 06-29-2011 02:15 PM

Re: Keeping score
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 454788)
it's going to DC

Well, duh. Which is why it was silly of you to make such a big deal out of the lower court opinions that went your way (which were the minority view too, of course).

Tyrone Slothrop 06-29-2011 02:44 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 454781)
My fiance's father was a city manager in Cleveland back in the 70s, and apparently young Dennis used to come by some of the parties when he was in his early 20s / teens and was generally sort of a dweeb and hanger on.

Then as mayor, he went (in my fiance's opinion) on to destroy Cleveland.

My bleeding heart liberal fiance thinks very, very little of Denis Kucinich.

I think he's a sanctimonious little elf, and I've never lived in Cleveland.

Replaced_Texan 06-29-2011 03:19 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454784)
Just out of curiousity, what did Dennis do that caused as much (or more) damage as the decline in manufacturing in the rust belt?

"Almost bankrupted the city" was the somewhat baffled reply on the phone. When pressed for details, the responder muttered something about 30 years ago and being in elementary school at the time.

ETA: Wiki has a whole article on his tenure as mayor of Cleveland.

Adder 06-29-2011 03:19 PM

Re: Keeping score
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 454788)
2-1!!!! bet you're relieved!

if I was an appeals court judge I'd just affirm w/o an opinion- it's going to DC

Judge Sutton's concurrence on the commerce clause, and in particular his long and comprehensive analysis of the activity/inactivity argument, is worth reading. Some of it suggests that it just isn't the role of the 6th Cir. to announce a new rule, but I think in total it concludes that the proposed rule is unworkable.

It will be interesting to see if his former boss, Scalia, agrees with him.

Adder 06-29-2011 03:22 PM

Re: Kucinich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 454792)
"Almost bankrupted the city" was the somewhat baffled reply on the phone. When pressed for details, the responder muttered something about 30 years ago and being in elementary school at the time.

The only thing I know about his time as mayor are what you just said, and what I just read on wikipedia. I found it interesting that the mafia put a hit on him, though.

Tyrone Slothrop 06-29-2011 03:25 PM

Re: Keeping score
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454793)
Judge Sutton's concurrence on the commerce clause, and in particular his long and comprehensive analysis of the activity/inactivity argument, is worth reading. Some of it suggests that it just isn't the role of the 6th Cir. to announce a new rule, but I think in total it concludes that the proposed rule is unworkable.

It will be interesting to see if his former boss, Scalia, agrees with him.

I find Sutton's efforts to reach out and rule on the taxing authority question, notwithstanding that it's absolutely not necessary in light of the majority's ruling on the Commerce Clause, remarkable. Is he that worried with protecting his conservative bona fides, given his Commerce Clause views? Can he just not resist the urge to reach out and call something unconstitutional?

Adder 06-29-2011 03:29 PM

Re: Keeping score
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 454795)
I find Sutton's efforts to reach out and rule on the taxing authority question, notwithstanding that it's absolutely not necessary in light of the majority's ruling on the Commerce Clause, remarkable. Is he that worried with protecting his conservative bona fides, given his Commerce Clause views? Can he just not resist the urge to reach out and call something unconstitutional?

I don't think he is calling it unconstitutional, I think he's calling it not a tax.

Thus he considers it first because if he concludes it's a tax, he doesn't need to determine it's constitutionality because it hasn't been argued that it's an unconstitutional tax, just that it isn't a tax.

But yeah, given the where he comes out on commerce, he could have skipped it.

ETA: What I find stranger, though, is two opinions concluding that it was within the commerce clause. If you are Judge Martin, why not just sign on to Judge Sutton's opinion? It doesn't really seem like three opinions were needed here.

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 03:40 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 454785)
Only a matter of time before they convict the Chicago-thug politician in the White House. AmIright??

Dude, he's not even from this country, much less a "Chicago-thug".

Cletus Miller 06-29-2011 03:48 PM

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattigap (Post 454782)
Cletus, Wonk --

I was not surprised to hear that Blago got convicted, but the interesting factoid I learned from Jon Stewart last night was that four out of the last seven Illinois governors have now been convicted of felonies. When you think about it, impressive even by Chicago standards.

Gatti

One of the other three was the USA who prosecuted one of the felons, and later was responsible for the pro bono defense of another!


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