Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

w/o Iraq voting over and over on AJ no way any of these happen. And 2 that no one else here will agree.

The real test is whether any of these revolutions will result in elections as W did achieve. He surely started the fire, but if Egypt or Libya or Iranistan or whereever end up something like Clinton let fester in Afghanistan it would be sad; for the people there and for us here.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Again, let's see what happens next.

I mean, it's great that a dictator can be removed with limited outside intervention, and certainly preferable to sending U.S. ground troops into a situation that they would be very unlikely to help.

But getting rid of the bad guy is only step one.

I'm not sure I follow your thinking. Could you explain? Is it that you don't think using force to achieve regime change would have happened without Bush?

Clinton and Somalia/Bosnia/Kosovo, with their partnership with international allies/organizations and constrained military engagement seem like closer analogs to me. [ETA: Obviously, one of those was a complete and utter fiasco and another happened appallingly late.]

Or maybe you meant the Libyans (and others) would not have been inspired to revolt without the example of Iraq?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I think it's an interesting question. On the one hand, I think autocracy is inherently unstable, and especially so in an increasingly globalized world (i.e. 1989 didn't happen because of Korea and Vietnam). On the other hand, there didn't seem to be much movement in that direction before we "liberated" Iraq.

Interestingly, perhaps where W deserves the clearest credit is in severely weakening the Western instinct to allow fear of unsavory democratically elected regimes to result in opposition to democracy.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Many are workers who have some arguable basis to claim disability and, fearing layoffs, are trying to secure a revenue stream.

I have seen it first hand. In a previous professional incarnation, I litigated on behalf of private insureds. Hence, I still get some referrals here and there. In the past year, I've been flooded with them. Two who asked me to handle appeals have admitted they would like to continue working, but it made more sense, given their tenuous job security, to go for the guaranteed money.

I'm disgusted by some of the people bringing specious claims. These couch stains seeking benefits for fibromyalgia, bipolar disorders and bad backs (best claim in the world, btw... it can never be fully verified true or false) are making it hard on lots of people with legitimate claims (MS, chemotherapy-related cognitive deficiency, etc.).

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Do you really think any of this, or are you just trolling?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Got anything that would work for me??

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I don't get what you think Bush did that changed anything in Libya.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

You're using the same illogic the Left used assailing Bush for allegedly neglecting domestic security in favor of foreign interventions. Nobody ever gets credit for preventing something.

And isn't it proof of the Stimulus's effectiveness that, coinciding with its exhaustion, the economy started to falter? Where would it have gone if we'd never had any Stimulus?

You're a Hayek fan. So am I. The problem with allowing things to collapse naturally is, What happens in the interim? We live in Mad Max Thunderdome, that's what happens.

I'm a nut. I'd love to live through that kind of volatility. Problem is, my family, my parents, my friends... I don't think they'd like that. Along with 200 million or so other people in the country who would lose their fucking minds.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Um.... any object that follows a ballistic trajectory goes up as fast as it comes down.

The issue isn't whether it's going up or down, it's how high it goes -- the missile is going to be slower as it closer to top of its trajectory, regardless of whether it is going up or down. With an ICBM, that point is very very high about the Earth. With a Scud, it presumably isn't, so maybe good radar plus good planes plus good missiles enables it to be shot down.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

2. If it weren't for Ws war in Iraq, the Muslims in Kosovo would never have rebelled and Clinton would never have been willing to help them.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Club, i can count this, correct?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Think it's been simmering since all of those "Muslims voting in Kosovo news clips?" I'm starting to see why you think gattigap smart.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I do not think this is true. The missile has to overcome gravity on the way up. The opposite is true on the way down. After lift-off, a rocket may move rather slowly, relative to the speed it will have just before it lands.

I am unreliably informed that a SCUD's maximum altitude is ~200 km, far above the operating altitude of warplanes.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

it depends how far away the target is, what were they shooting at?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

You may not be familiar with the Algerian War, when Algerians revolted against their French oppressors, but most Libyans are probably familiar with that history. Or with 1969, when a band of military officers in another North African country* overthrew their king in the name of freedom, abolished the monarchy, and proclaimed a republic.

* I.e., Libya.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

you know, a full 80% of the posts from socks besides me on the board where I mod are arguably troll-posts, yet I know as the mod I should not accuse socks of being a troll, at least publicly.

you seem not to be so circumspect, I mean wrt to people who you disagree with. You've never once posted a question like this to GGG whom everyone with any objectivity must admit has drifted to being a flat out troll here.

Is there a method to your apparent madness?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Not sure why you think that distance to target would affect maximum altitude here in any material way.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

or maybe it was the US Revolutionary War? Let's be cautious of giving W any credit for anything.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

because I've had senior level classes in flight dynamics?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I couldn't tell if you were serious. If you were trolling I wasn't going to respond. In all honesty, I don't get why you think anything that Bush did had anything to do with what has happened in Libya, any more than Obama's speech in Cairo did. If I suggested that Obama's speech in Cairo had given us the Arab Spring, etc., I think you would be justified in mocking me.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Yes, that too.

One thing they all share, which Bush/Iraq did not, is that they all featured a people rising up against their leaders, instead of being invaded by a foreign government seeking to change their leaders.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

but maybe it did help somewhat, although I wonder how widespread access was to the words in these repressive states.

Al J is supposed to be popular, like Fox+CNN throughout the Mid East. They cover Iraq elections while the people in all these countries suffer under dictators.

It seems like a whole lot of countries stood up in the same moment. Something motivated it.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Good for you. So what's the answer: Why would target distance here change the maximum altitude in any material way?

I get why target distance could affect maximum altitude, but it will still be above the level at which warplanes fly.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I don't think we would have seen the populace uprisings in the ME without the Iraqi invasion. I think Iraq showed the middle east what was possible.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Actually, Iraq's people have stood up in the past, just not successfully.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Something like food prices, say.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

the further the target is the lower the maximum altitude.

I have no idea if a plane could shoot one down at any particular altitude. I'm just trying to guide you and adder in your discussion by correcting corrigendum in your scientific statements.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

So Bush showed that you need to have the help of a superpower to overthrow your despotic leader? I'm sure Libyans in Benghazi found that inspirational, and threw flowers at the NATO tanks as they rolled past.

Stick with what Club is saying. It's far-fetched to think that Bush's invasion of Iraq showed Libyans anything new about what was possible, but at least it doesn't undercut your point.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

that liberals are arguing bread prices is simply proof that Bush deserves the credit. maybe you can email the editors about sidd's kosovo theory.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

OK, but the question I asked (twice!) was, Why would target distance here change the maximum altitude in any material way? (I emphasized key bits you aren't helping with.)

As I said, I get why target distance could affect maximum altitude, but it will still be above the level at which warplanes fly. 200 km above the planet is far, far above warplanes.

Ah, yes, I see. Helpful!

You would have to find them first.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Club and I tend to make the same points, I just make them in a smart assed way, because I have no dream of teaching you anything.

Iraq (as would Iran) took help because the leaders were nastier and the armies stronger. Do you have an eye disease where everything looks two dimensional, and in black and white?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Well i'll answer your question (although it would have been helpful to understand how many variables you're able to integrate too.)

Assume the motion of the projective is being measured from a Free fall frame which happens to be at (x,y)=(0,0) at t=0. The equation of motion of the projectile in this frame ( by the principle of equivalence) would be y = xtan(θ). The co-ordinates of this free-fall frame, with respect to our inertial frame would be y = − gt2 / 2. That is, y = − g(x / vh)2 / 2.

Now translating back to the inertial frame the co-ordinates of the projectile becomes y = xtan(θ) − g(x / vh)2 / 2 That is:

y=-{g\sec^2\theta\over 2v_0^2}x^2+x\tan\theta,

(where v0 is the initial velocity, θ is the angle of elevation, and g is the acceleration due to gravity).
[edit] Range and height
Trajectories of projectiles launched at different elevation angles but the same speed of 10 m/s in a vacuum and uniform downward gravity field of 10 m/s2. Points are at 0.05 s intervals and length of their tails is linearly proportional to their speed. t = time from launch, T = time of flight, R = range and H = highest point of trajectory (indicated with arrows).

The range, R, is the greatest distance the object travels along the x-axis in the I sector. The initial velocity, vi, is the speed at which said object is launched from the point of origin. The initial angle, θi, is the angle at which said object is released. The g is the respective gravitational pull on the object within a null-medium.

R={v_i^2\sin2\theta_i\over g}

The height, h, is the greatest parabolic height said object reaches within its trajectory

h={v_i^2\sin^2\theta_i\over 2g}

[edit] Angle of elevation

In terms of angle of elevation θ and initial speed v:

v_h=v \cos \theta,\quad v_v=v \sin \theta \;

giving the range as

R= 2 v^2 \cos(\theta) \sin(\theta) / g = v^2 \sin(2\theta) / g\,.

This equation can be rearranged to find the angle for a required range

{ \theta } = \frac 1 2 \sin^{-1} \left( { {g R} \over { v^2 } } \right) (Equation II: angle of projectile launch)

Note that the sine function is such that there are two solutions for θ for a given range dh. The angle θ giving the maximum range can be found by considering the derivative or R with respect to θ and setting it to zero.

{\mathrm{d}R\over \mathrm{d}\theta}={2v^2\over g} \cos(2\theta)=0

which has a non trivial solution at 2\theta=\pi/2=90^\circ, or \theta=45^\circ. The maximum range is then R_{max} = v^2/g\,. At this angle sin(π / 2) = 1, so the maximum height obtained is {v^2 \over 4g}.

To find the angle giving the maximum height for a given speed calculate the derivative of the maximum height H = v2sin2(θ) / (2g) with respect to θ, that is {\mathrm{d}H\over \mathrm{d}\theta}=v^2 2\cos(\theta)\sin(\theta) /(2g) which is zero when \theta=\pi/2=90^\circ. So the maximum height H_{max}={v^2\over 2g} is obtained when the projectile is fired straight up.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Interesting. In the six months since things started up in Libya, have you seen any Libyans say that Bush inspired them? Or is it that his influence was so profound that they just can't even recall a Middle East without W's inspirational, pro-democratic stamp on it?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

When I cut and paste from Wikipedia, I try to take out the tags that say "[edit]."

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

I find it absurd that you would criticize cut and paste posts.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

No doubt, but do we have any reason to believe that the interceptors were ramming the scuds? Or were they lauching missiles with much different operational ceilings?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

If you want to give Bush some credit for what happened in Libya, I would look to the idea that we can support local combatants very effectively airpower and spotters on the ground, a la Afghanistan.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

That wasn't a criticism of your post. It was a deflation of your pretension to superior expertise. I took humanities classes where I learned to tell the difference.

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

Not Bush, the Iraq freedoms. And given the cluster fuck of tribes within most of these countries I can certainly see why there is little spoken credit about other countries. We are seeing an amazing, almost universal (within the region) movement of people that had been under a dictator's thumb to a hopeful freedom.

I can see where a poly sci major might argue it coincidence, but I am a scientist, and I cannot deny that there must be some generating cause. Can you name one that makes more sense that Iraq?

Re: My God, you are an idiot.
 

again, you are speaking to military tactics, which has little to do with Bush. I am saying the freedom of the Iraq people motivated the movements.