Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Cletus and I were talking about the DC unions, which I have already said I disagreed with. The ad hominem attacks were introduced by Hank, who entered by saying that I didn't know anything, instead of saying something to show he does. You've done the same, and it's been equally useless. If you have something to add on what we were actually talking about, that would be great.

Whatever your or my actual understanding of unions, it would be nice if you could just post in a way that shares on whatever you actually know instead of just pronouncing that you know a lot and that others don't, notwithstanding how pleased with yourself it makes you. No offence.

I asked a question to try to get a sense of where you were coming from in your post. then I asked if you knew the difference between two alternative contexts in which knowledge of unions can reside in an effourt to ascertain if you understood the gist of the initial question. this exercise was done to ascertain what context we might be able to have a correspondence here on the topic. Obviously you are thin skinned for some reason and took these qualifying inquiries to be some sort of insult, that never actually happened.

I hope you can be more objective and high minded in your Mod duties here and not bring this prejudice to the very fabrique of the board.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

no one is trying to show you up, but a corollary of your suggestion would be to not tell us we're trolls when we disagree with us on topics that we know better than you.

if you'd like, email me your posts in draft when they touch on a subject not in your wheelhouse and I'll correct as necessary.

FWIW, Hank actually provides this service to me, at a fee....well, its a barter for services I provide to his wife......

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

I asked a question to try to get a sense of where you were coming from in your post. then I asked if you knew the difference between two alternative contexts in which knowledge of unions can reside in an effourt to ascertain if you understood the gist of the initial question. this exercise was done to ascertain what context we might be able to have a correspondence here on the topic. Obviously you are thin skinned for some reason and took these qualifying inquiries to be some sort of insult, that never actually happened.

I hope you can be more objective and high minded in your Mod duties here and not bring this prejudice to the very fabrique of the board.

If either of you actually know anything about Rhee and the DC teachers unions, you are more than welcome to share it. Otherwise, blather on.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

OK. Rest assured I do not confuse you and Hank.

even though I joked about it, I took this as an insult too.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

That intersection only works if you choose to send your kids to public school, i.e. you choose to entrust your kids to certain people. The poor don't have that choice, and are at the mercy of whomever the Union sends us and protects at all costs. Sad that you and some of the other big brains here are so hellbent on oppressing and marginalising the least amongst us, but, to give you credit, the teachers' unions who do your bidding are doing a hellavu job at destroying our nation's youth.

Yesterday's Dilbert cartoon seems appropriate:

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/dilbert...media/20102812

We mostly work for the bad guys, because the bad guys have the money, Mr. Corner Office.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

No shit. But what I'm saying is that schools are a reflection of the community they serve. They do not and cannot save that community from itself . . .

This point applies to almost any policy question. In the end, its impossible to save anyone from themselves. The goal, which is really hard, is to help people and communities to save themselves.

[This trenchant analysis brought to you by several good-quality high-test beers.]

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

there is a golf course a block from my home and that map has people living on it.

The census tries to track the homeless now.

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Secret_Agent_Man

Yesterday's Dilbert cartoon seems appropriate:

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/dilbert...media/20102812

We mostly work for the bad guys, because the bad guys have the money, Mr. Corner Office.

S_A_M

have you ever heard of "critical legal studies?" it's a leftist movement that recognized graduating ls and becoming activist lawyers was pretty impotent. instead they took jobs in big law then broke computers or copiers or deleted important sections of briefs, all on the eve of important filings that sought to protect polluters or other things they found vile.


I learned of the movement in law school. later, when I was a legal rep and union rep in a major government employee union I thought of tanking grievance hearings or briefs, to do what was right for the country, that is causing my union to lose.

I stood above those instincts, ultimately, but I was torn, since i could see what harm the paid union officials were doing to the rank and file membership, not to mention the country.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I think it was a good thing that Rhee ran the schools as she thought best instead of trying to placate the electorate, but the end result is that she is no longer running the schools, so that strategy only goes so far. And then it doesn't.

Agreed.

But your argument that one can and should expect the teacher's unions to pursue the perceived interests of their constituents really isn't an argument against harping on those unions as the cause of much that is wrong with our educational system (i.e. said harping isn't necessarily asinine).

S_A_M

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

even though I joked about it, I took this as an insult too.

I'm pretty sure Cletus isn't named after a Bukowski character, but I could be wrong.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Secret_Agent_Man

Agreed.

But your argument that one can and should expect the teacher's unions to pursue the perceived interests of their constituents really isn't an argument against harping on those unions as the cause of much that is wrong with our educational system (i.e. said harping isn't necessarily asinine).

S_A_M

When the same people harp about how defense contractors should reduce their profits so that we can better control defense spending, or how health insurers should do more charity work so that more people can afford health care, I will be impressed.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

have you ever heard of "critical legal studies?" it's a leftist movement that recognized graduating ls and becoming activist lawyers was pretty impotent. instead they took jobs in big law then broke computers or copiers or deleted important sections of briefs, all on the eve of important filings that sought to protect polluters or other things they found vile.

I have heard of the movement -- as a matter of legal theory and deconstruction -- but didn't realize it extended to guerilla activity.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I learned of the movement in law school. later, when I was a legal rep and union rep in a major government employee union I thought of tanking grievance hearings or briefs, to do what was right for the country, that is causing my union to lose.

I stood above those instincts, ultimately, but I was torn, since i could see what harm the paid union officials were doing to the rank and file membership, not to mention the country.

Fair enough. But i think you were right. As a matter of principle, I do believe in something my Grandpa used to say (RIP): "If you take a man's money, you don't kick him in the face."

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

When the same people harp about how defense contractors should reduce their profits so that we can better control defense spending, or how health insurers should do more charity work so that more people can afford health care, I will be impressed.

Everyone has their pet issues.

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

When the same people harp about how defense contractors should reduce their profits so that we can better control defense spending, or how health insurers should do more charity work so that more people can afford health care, I will be impressed.

Ty, not to be insulting, but isn't there competitive bidding on defense contracts, and can't companies change their health care provider?

see, this is the exact weakness I was thinking about when i offered to read your posts, pre-posting

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Ty, not to be insulting, but isn't there competitive bidding on defense contracts, and can't companies change their health care provider?

see, this is the exact weakness I was thinking about when i offered to read your posts, pre-posting

I think it's obvious that there are important dissimilarities between teachers unions, defense contractors, and healthcare providers. I'm also pretty sure you see the parallel I'm trying to draw. I've also said that I supported Rhee vs. the unions in DC, but apparently I need to repeat that. If Fenty had been re-elected and she had continued in her position, that would have been great, and it wasn't the unions who voted her out.