Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Tel Aviv airport is actually much quicker to get through than a U.S. airport.

But speaking of privacy and the 4th Amendment, check out Judge Kozinski's dissent in a recent case involving police putting a GPS device on a suspect's car. This is but a sample:



http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...2/08-30385.pdf

I love that opinion so much I want to take it behind the middle school and get it pregnant. Kosinski himself, not so much -- from his web browsing habits I think he might actually take me up on the offer.

The pivotal civil rights question of the 21st century will be whether one loses the privacy of one's whereabouts merely because it's theoretically possible to observe the location of a car, or a person, if you're physically there. The framework used by the Supreme Court about observation aids assumed a certain amount of difficulty as the practical guardian of privacy. Since that's no longer true, I'm looking to the SCOTUS to engage in a little "activism" on that front.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

I wasn't responding to that example per se, just jumping off.

It's interesting to see how people on this board line up on this issue. Not what I would have expected.

I bristle at paying to be inconvenienced. My take on border control inconvenience is a bit different, but they don't charge me hundreds or thousands of dollars to cross the border.

OTOH, on the half dozen or so times a year I cross the border with our neighbour to the north, I consistently notice that the lines to come into the US move more slowly than the lines into Canada, and the Canadian officers are typically amiable, where the US officers are typically giant oozing a-holes. Maybe Canada is lax on the security and that's why all the major terrorist attacks in North America over the last 11 years have been in Canada?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

It's interesting to see how people on this board line up on this issue. Not what I would have expected.

If it helps re-affirm your expectations at all, I see no reason to be more concerned about a child being subjected to screening. If anything, the child has less of an expectation of personal privacy than an adult. Especially the youngest children who may very well find themselves quite exposed in public, albeit at their parent's hand, rather than the hand of a low-level government functionary (hi, hank!).

That said, I've not seen the video, and, as I said, I'm not keen on these procedures for anyone.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Adder

I suspect they pay vastly more per employee.

But I'm guessing.

They probably get vastly more competent people.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

They probably get vastly more competent people.

Whiff much?

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Adder

Whiff much?

I owned the other one. I dissent here.

[Penske 2.0]

TSA pat-down leaves Mich. man covered in urine

Hank?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

I highly doubt it would be more expensive than what is currently in place. I have nothing to back this up, but assume it would be more of a matter of reallocating personnel, rather than additional person power.

Highly doubtful. Besides, take what Penske has said about the competence of TSA personnel, and imagine those people conducting probing interviews designed to make a terror suspect nervous.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

I love that opinion so much I want to take it behind the middle school and get it pregnant. Kosinski himself, not so much -- from his web browsing habits I think he might actually take me up on the offer.

The pivotal civil rights question of the 21st century will be whether one loses the privacy of one's whereabouts merely because it's theoretically possible to observe the location of a car, or a person, if you're physically there. The framework used by the Supreme Court about observation aids assumed a certain amount of difficulty as the practical guardian of privacy. Since that's no longer true, I'm looking to the SCOTUS to engage in a little "activism" on that front.

Oh, it's a simple matter of determining what the founders would have done with GPS technology and webcams.

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by Adder

If it helps re-affirm your expectations at all, I see no reason to be more concerned about a child being subjected to screening. If anything, the child has less of an expectation of personal privacy than an adult. Especially the youngest children who may very well find themselves quite exposed in public, albeit at their parent's hand, rather than the hand of a low-level government functionary (hi, hank!).

That said, I've not seen the video, and, as I said, I'm not keen on these procedures for anyone.

I'm not a parent, so take this for what it's worth, but I suspect this is more of an issue for the parent than the child. I would not want anyone else laying hands on my child, especially in sensitive areas. You'd think that there is a compromise here, where the parent could be the one actually touching the child at the instruction and to the satisfaction of the TSA agent. Would be interested to hear from the parents out there on this one.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

It's interesting to see how people on this board line up on this issue. Not what I would have expected.

Meh. I generally think people bitch too much.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Highly doubtful. Besides, take what Penske has said about the competence of TSA personnel, and imagine those people conducting probing interviews designed to make a terror suspect nervous.

I think that there is a way to get more competent people, we are just not doing that, which, at some point rises up to the policy makers who you distinguished earlier....the buck does stop somewhere, yes?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Oh, it's a simple matter of determining what the founders would have done with GPS technology and webcams.

Whatever Sara Palin says they'd say, of course.

Or is this Glenn Beck's week?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

I'm not a parent, so take this for what it's worth, but I suspect this is more of an issue for the parent than the child. I would not want anyone else laying hands on my child, especially in sensitive areas. You'd think that there is a compromise here, where the parent could be the one actually touching the child at the instruction and to the satisfaction of the TSA agent. Would be interested to hear from the parents out there on this one.

I've flown with my kids many times. I don't remember any of them ever being frisked. The TSA agents I've dealt with who wanted to do an extra search of me or my bag have been very professional and polite -- explaining what they were doing before they did it, asking if I had questions or wanted to see a supervisor. (Quite honestly, I have been shocked by how professional and polite they have been.) If it were to happen -- say my son setting off a metal detector -- I would imagine that the TSA would tell me that they needed to give him a patdown of his shirt and waist area. If it were done in that manner, with me standing there and no lingering gropes, I wouldn't be bothered at all.

The youtube video was weird. It looked like the parent took the kid's shirt off. I have trouble imagining that -- it happening, or there being any reason for it to happen -- and the TSA's response to the incident was that there was no reason for it.

In contrast to this, a friend of mine returned from a group trip to Cuba with his adolescent daughter, and the Customs people made her take off her shirt. That pissed a lot of people off, and rightly so -- who gives a shit if Cuba sells a t-shirt? And yet, I didn't hear much about that example of intrusive government action on FOX.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

I think that there is a way to get more competent people, we are just not doing that, which, at some point rises up to the policy makers who you distinguished earlier....the buck does stop somewhere, yes?

What private company do you deal with where the lowest-level employees, who get paid whatever the TSA screeners make, have demonstrated great competence and professionalism?

As I said in another post -- the TSA people who've actually searched me have acted very competently and professionally. But one needs to keep these things in perspective.