Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Forgive me for thinking that you and others are exagerrating the inconveniences here. I don't think it's ever taken me half an hour to get through security, at least not in the US. Try actually timing it sometime.

Sounds like you have never flown out of Dulles. Although it has improved with the new screening area.

But I will admit that I am spoiled by National, which with one minor exception always goes smoothly and with very little line. Wonder why?

(I'm also at a loss to understand why Thurgreed had to go through security again to catch a connecting flight -- unless he was connecting from an international to a domestic flight?)

Or he had to change terminal. There are parts of O'Hare, for example, where that could happen, but it would generally mean switching airlines.

People act as if being scanned by a machine, or being patdown for a few seconds, is the equivalent of being pulled over at midnight on a deserted stretch of the road for a DWB offense.

Some people are, but I don't think anyone here has said that. But you keep saying "a few seconds" like that's all it is. It's the accumulated effect of those extra seconds on the time it takes to get through. And if there isn't an impact on time, then there is an impact on hiring more TSA people than needed.

I obviously have no personal experience with the latter, but somehow I think it's a hell of a lot more intrusive, frightening, and inconvenient (and I suspect that "inconvenience" is relatively low on the list of concerns for anyone subject to that).

I was once pulled over because "the light on my license plate was out" while giving a black coworker a ride home from the company holiday party (in college). I don't know, but suspect after the fact her race was part of the reason for the stop, but it turned into a field sobriety test (which I passed, thank you). Scared the crap out of me, but for entirely different reasons.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Forgive me for thinking that you and others are exagerrating the inconveniences here.

I hate to respond twice, but here's some perspective on how the TSA procedures compare to security at courthouses and prisons.

Granted, I think there is room to say that the courthouse should be doing more, but I think his point that the actual risk posed by those going into a courthouse is way higher than those flying to dead on.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Adder

Sounds like you have never flown out of Dulles.

In recent years, only when connecting from an international flight to a domestic. And you do have to go thru security again, but it's always been pretty quick. I think it's a dedicated area.

Some people are, but I don't think anyone here has said that. But you keep saying "a few seconds" like that's all it is. It's the accumulated effect of those extra seconds on the time it takes to get through. And if there isn't an impact on time, then there is an impact on hiring more TSA people than needed.

Again, I don't think it's that big a deal. If it's really 10 seconds for every person -- which I doubt, as that's a really long time to spend looking at a single item that fits in the palm of your hand -- you would need to be the 180the person in line for that one single TSA person for the license-check to add 30 minutes to your wait. In many situations I habitually count the number of people on line in front of me (no one here but us anal-retentive geeks); 180 people in a single line is enormously long and extremely unlikely. Except maybe in Vegas on a Sunday morning, but everyone on the line is so impaired that TSA-related delays are the least of my worries.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Well, when you are in security line, as happened to me at Dulles awhile back, and there is one guy scrutinizing IDs so closely that the three inspection lines behind him are entirely open but it still takes you more than a half hour to get through security, then I don't think it's so minimal. I think that extra time spent in the airport has actual economic costs - it makes tourists marginally less interested in flying and, more importantly, directly increases the costs of business travel in ways that are a total loss.

Granted things would have been better if there weren't four TSA agents dealing with a girl who was sick, but there is still no excuse for the ID check being the bottleneck.



I guess it depends on how hard you think it is to get a fake ID.

ETA: btw, Sebby, now would be a good time to rehash your rant about responding to any obvious fact with "cite please."

Feel free to run with my argument in that regard, and yes, I support its use here.

But having read three pages of argument on TSA procedures, for the first time in the history of my posting on these boards, I have found a subject so dry I can neither develop interest in it nor find a decent jumping off point from which to drive the dialogue in another direction.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

There is only inconsistency if you assume one goal.

There remains inescapable inconsistency if you advocate a plan under which frequency of procedures necessarily rises while out of the other side of your mouth arguing for a decrease in the use of procedures. That you say both ends can be achieved at once doesn't undo that fact. It only makes you sound either deluded, ignorant or disingenuous, or all three.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I would suggest that the assholishness of government agents is in inverse relationship to the prestige and importance of their agency. When I have dealt with FBI agents, they have been low key and pleasant. They don't need to be assholes; they work for the FBI. OTOH, there are border agents (or clerks at the DMV).

I've met a couple USAs on power trips. And I'm sure all of us litigators have met a few judges who make up for congenital insignificance by lording over everyone in their midst.

I have, however, found most FBI agents fit the description you've offered. They tend to be very pleasant and businesslike. Except when in court. They seem to get annoyed when they're taken to trial. I wonder if they view it as a failing on their part - that had they made out a better case initially, the USA would have been armed with enough evidence to convince the defendant to take a deal.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There remains inescapable inconsistency if you advocate a plan under which frequency of procedures necessarily rises while out of the other side of your mouth arguing for a decrease in the use of procedures. That you say both ends can be achieved at once doesn't undo that fact. It only makes you sound either deluded, ignorant or disingenuous, or all three.

As unexciting as the TSA stuff is, I have even less enthusiasm for wading back into health care.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

"A six-sigma process is one in which 99.99966% of the products manufactured are statistically expected to be free of defects (3.4 defects per million)." Wikipedia, which has never lied to me before.

It it just me or am I being weirdly defensive today?

Ah, taking MBA claptrap over mathematical fact:

6σ Percentage within CI: 99.9999998027% Percentage outside CI: 0.0000001973% Fraction outside CI: 1 / 506,800,000

Also from Wikipedia, just to make you happy.

I don't think--for those hypersensitive to terrorist deaths--that "the 1.5 sigma shift introduced to account for long-term variation" is acceptable.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Adder

I will believe it when I see it, as I think the last person quoted there is wrong about the subsidies not enriching any special interests.

Re-read that last line; it's not a quote and Adler was making a point which requires a fundamental agreement with you on ethanol = $$ for special interests.

What's interesting about it, 2012 horse race wise, is how Pawlenty and Thune handle the issue--side with DeMint and Coburn, lose *huge* on hometown support; go against them and be seen as big government Rs.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Re-read that last line; it's not a quote and Adler was making a point which requires a fundamental agreement with you on ethanol = $$ for special interests.

Whoops. Read it too fast on the iphone.

What's interesting about it, 2012 horse race wise, is how Pawlenty and Thune handle the issue--side with DeMint and Coburn, lose *huge* on hometown support; go against them and be seen as big government Rs.

I'm sure Pawlenty is hoping he can duck the question. But while being against them would hurt him some (including in neighboring states), I wouldn't bet on him carrying Minnesota anyway. ETA: In the general election, obviously. I would expect him to do well in the R primary.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

Ah, taking MBA claptrap over mathematical fact:

6σ Percentage within CI: 99.9999998027% Percentage outside CI: 0.0000001973% Fraction outside CI: 1 / 506,800,000

Also from Wikipedia, just to make you happy.

I don't think--for those hypersensitive to terrorist deaths--that "the 1.5 sigma shift introduced to account for long-term variation" is acceptable.

I like the procedures because when I fly I get to see lots of lady's naked feet.

[Hank Chinaski]

I sort of think TSA trying to make us more comfy with the concept of nudity, that it is no big deal, that seems like a good move to ease the public's concerns. But when 1 brave TSA'er takes that first first step he loses the job? NWTAF?

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

They don't pat you down at sporting events in Seattle?

Certain events yes, but not the typical ones that I was referencing above.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

In recent years, only when connecting from an international flight to a domestic. And you do have to go thru security again, but it's always been pretty quick. I think it's a dedicated area.





Again, I don't think it's that big a deal. If it's really 10 seconds for every person -- which I doubt, as that's a really long time to spend looking at a single item that fits in the palm of your hand -- you would need to be the 180the person in line for that one single TSA person for the license-check to add 30 minutes to your wait. In many situations I habitually count the number of people on line in front of me (no one here but us anal-retentive geeks); 180 people in a single line is enormously long and extremely unlikely. Except maybe in Vegas on a Sunday morning, but everyone on the line is so impaired that TSA-related delays are the least of my worries.

Do you own stock in the TSA?

[sgtclub]

Not to beat a dead horse, but . . .

A TSA employee remained hospitalized today after being accused of kidnapping a young female in Atlanta, then taking her to his Hogansville residence and sexually assaulting her.

Randall Scott King, whose age and street address were not given, abducted the woman Wednesday evening from a MARTA parking lot at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, police said.

The alleged victim said after the assault, she was released by her captor, who gave her a suicide note and instructions on where to deliver it.

Union City police alerted Hogansville police about the incident early Thursday.

Hogansville officers obtained search warrants and found King at his residence with what appeared to be self-inflicted wounds. Police did not describe the type or extent of his wounds. King was airlifted to Columbus Regional Medical Center, where he was listed in critical condition this morning.

Criminal warrants against King were obtained by MARTA and Hogansville police. The charges were not specified.

King was identified as an employee of the federal Transportation Safety Administration, which is assisting in the investigation.

Hogansville police said the investigation is ongoing and further details will be released when the probe is completed.

Read more: La Grange News - BREAKING NEWS TSA employee accused of kidnap assault