Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Give me a school system and make me king, and I'd make two changes overnight: (1) Every administrator has to teach. Administration is a part-time job, and we need fewer of them, not more. No exceptions. (2) Mix up the size of classes. Stick a kid in a 100 person lecture class for three hours and a 10-12 person seminar for another three hours, instead of putting them in 30 hour classes for 6 hours.

As to the school principal, I'd have every principal teach two classes, on the subject of their choice: one to incoming freshmen, in the smallest seminars possible, one to exiting seniors, same deal. Job #1 is to know the kids.

(3) Make the head of the schools answer to the mayor, rather than a separately elected official. Accountability to the voters.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Res ipsa loquitur:

House Republican leaders yesterday unveiled major changes to House procedural rules that are clearly designed to pave the way for more deficit-increasing tax cuts in the next two years. These rules stand in sharp contrast to the strong anti-deficit rhetoric that many Republicans used on the campaign trail this fall. While changes in congressional rules rarely get much public attention, these new rules — which are expected to be adopted by party-line vote when the 112th Congress convenes on January 5 — could have a substantial impact and risk making the nation’s fiscal problems significantly worse.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

(3) Make the head of the schools answer to the mayor, rather than a separately elected official. Accountability to the voters.

We're in year 15 of that in Chicago and, while there's some progress at the elementary level, there still isn't an open enrollment high school that is beyond barely acceptable. And the number that are barely acceptable totals one. Out of about 125.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

And whether or not a system is well-designed, the folks who are going to manage it are public school administrators, who are probably the only people who Penkse would concede are less competent than public school teachers.

Real Estate Brokers/Realtors are, as a group of workers engaged in common practice, less competent that either of those two groups; but it's close.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

There's one overarching variable: class size. If you can get class size down to less than 17-18 from the 25-30 range, it makes a huge difference. The next big jump, to class sizes of less than 10, isn't feasible for public schools. Best national policy: a mandate of at least a couple hours a day in a class of 15 students or fewer.

I generally agree with this.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Give me a school system and make me king, and I'd make two changes overnight: (1) Every administrator has to teach. Administration is a part-time job, and we need fewer of them, not more. No exceptions. (2) Mix up the size of classes. Stick a kid in a 100 person lecture class for three hours and a 10-12 person seminar for another three hours, instead of putting them in 30 hour classes for 6 hours.

As to the school principal, I'd have every principal teach two classes, on the subject of their choice: one to incoming freshmen, in the smallest seminars possible, one to exiting seniors, same deal. Job #1 is to know the kids.

I think you underestimate the need for administration, although I agree with putting them in classrooms at regular intervals.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

i said my kids' school was fine. we live at 10 mile road. my son has 10 friends that the following applies to:

no dad, strong mom. kid started in Detroit schools. by third grade or so the mom busted something to get the kid an address north of 8 mile, and in my kids' friends, north of 10 mile. at the same time lots of other parents dragged junior to charter schools.

result? the kids left in Detroit schools drop out at 60%. I believe in our earlier rehash of this argument you suggested the concerned parents who dragged their kids out of these fucked up schools were at fault, and I asked if you, you brave pioneer, would leave your child in a school with a 60% dropout rate, since your kid being there would marginally improve the school.

you ignored the question. I'll answer that I would get my kid the fuck of out dodge, and I do not blame any parent who did the same.

you new theory is to take teachers that are deemed "Good" and make them quit one school district and go to some other? like freedom to contract is gone in your world?

I don't have a solution to fix how fucked up it is for the kids stuck after everyone who can get out gets out, but your "choice; they can homeschool, is broken because our dads could have had this same discussion.

annotated version: the whole world doesn't live in colonials an hour outside both napa and muir.

No shit. But what I'm saying is that schools are a reflection of the community they serve. They do not and cannot save that community from itself, no matter how much we would like to think the American Dream can be kick-started by one Jaime Escalante character per school.

I'm saying, we all have choices and what we have chosen is this: that the quality of an American education varies widely based on the resources and capacity of one's parents. We cry about this, but we do nothing to change it. People like Penske blame the school administrators and the unions for wanting the system to be this way. That is bullshit. The American people want the system to be this way, because (1) it's what they voted for one way or another; (2) the people who have excess capacity in their daily struggle to survive for their kid's education manage to have enough we-clawed-our-way-out stories to provide false anecdotal hope that people in horrifying situations can succeed if they make the right sacrifices and (3) all the people who vote have kids in good-enough schools.

BTW, before you hop on any bandwagon with Penske, we should be clear on something -- does P think we should have a system of public schools, and if so, should that system have the same, more or fewer resources than the system we have? Because I suspect the answer he'll give is the same Republican bullshit we've always gotten -- "all the inputs are bad EXCEPT money, which looks fine from here" -- and crying about inner city teens is just his way of railing against the system because he knows it's a cheap way to buy credibility on the topic.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

I think you underestimate the need for administration, although I agree with putting them in classrooms at regular intervals.

Indeed. Nothing's better with less administration.

Government
Health Care
Corporations
Universities

When I think back on all the settlements I've done that have been sped along at stunning speed due to the involvment of so many functionaries and the observance of so many policies and procedures I am truly humbled... Where would any of us be but for the endless tenctacles of administration pushing us forward? The "Guardian Angels of Commerce" I like to call them.

[sgtclub]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Give me a school system and make me king, and I'd make two changes overnight: (1) Every administrator has to teach. Administration is a part-time job, and we need fewer of them, not more. No exceptions. (2) Mix up the size of classes. Stick a kid in a 100 person lecture class for three hours and a 10-12 person seminar for another three hours, instead of putting them in 30 hour classes for 6 hours.

As to the school principal, I'd have every principal teach two classes, on the subject of their choice: one to incoming freshmen, in the smallest seminars possible, one to exiting seniors, same deal. Job #1 is to know the kids.

Sounds like we could apply these concepts to Congress as well.

I do like the idea of part-time administration. I saw some numbers a few years back that were startling. For every dollar that goes into schools, an incredible amount is eaten up by admin.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

What's your 2010 political IQ?

9/10

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

We're in year 15 of that in Chicago and, while there's some progress at the elementary level, there still isn't an open enrollment high school that is beyond barely acceptable. And the number that are barely acceptable totals one. Out of about 125.

One problem with education reform is that most voters don't care. In the exit polling I saw, voters in Washington D.C. with kids in the public schools voted for Fenty, and by a larger proportion than any other group identified.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

that's bullshit elitist crap. Teacher reassignment can be done, the effette liberal elitists don't have the balls to stand up to the teachers' unions. congrats.

Hank, help me out here -- freedom of contract, or bullshit elitist crap?

Of course, it doesn't matter. There is zero political will to empty out highly paid and highly skilled teachers from elite high schools (where people vote) to send them to failing inner city schools. And I agree with Adder that it probably won't help test scores one iota.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

That I agree with, but I have to ask, Does it bear repeating? Who doesn't realize there are innumerable variables and that a one size fits all plan won't work.

Debating national education policy is silly. The solution has to be implemented subjectively, on a case by case local basis.

But see this:

In the US, it has always been an accepted fact that if a student moves from Georgia to Minnesota – or from any state to any other state – she can expect a potentially major shift in the way she is taught, what she is taught, and how she is tested on what she knows.

In 2010, the US took a significant step toward changing that situation: It created common, rigorous standards that are on track to be adopted by 44 states and the District of Columbia.

These standards are intended to influence curricula, teacher training, and textbooks, and spur the creation of better, more sophisticated tests. By most accounts, these standards are good ones, and go a long way toward addressing the oft-cited US problem of teaching that is "a mile wide and an inch deep."

This is the first time in US history that states seem serious about having one set of universal standards – something that's commonplace in most countries, but has always been anathema to the decentralized American education system.

"Big, modern countries in a flattening, shrinking world don't have separate academic expectations for kids living in different portions of their country," says Chester Finn, president of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute and a longtime advocate for common standards. "We also have a mobile population of people that are as likely to live in Portland, Ore., as Portland, Maine."

Though overshadowed by the Obama administration's Race to the Top education grants and education reform battles in cities like Washington, common standards could be a key step toward meaningful reforms to improve US education, advocates say.

Mr. Finn, who was among those pleasantly surprised by the overall excellence of the standards, acknowledges that creating and adopting them is only about "10 percent" of what ultimately needs to take place.

"But if you don't have a destination for your journey that's worth getting to," he adds, "why start driving?"

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by sgtclub

Sounds like we could apply these concepts to Congress as well.

I do like the idea of part-time administration. I saw some numbers a few years back that were startling. For every dollar that goes into schools, an incredible amount is eaten up by admin.

My desktop Ed Code is six inches thick -- unannotated. People want to control how (and what) other people's kids are taught. That equals administration. Oh, and special ed, too -- you can spend $100K annually so a high-need kid can maximize his potential while remaining in need of assistive services for the rest of his/her life -- and that comes out of the budget for "education" which is fixed by Prop 13 and Prop 98.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

My desktop Ed Code is six inches thick -- unannotated. People want to control how (and what) other people's kids are taught. That equals administration. Oh, and special ed, too -- you can spend $100K annually so a high-need kid can maximize his potential while remaining in need of assistive services for the rest of his/her life -- and that comes out of the budget for "education" which is fixed by Prop 13 and Prop 98.

if 60% of the kids drop out, does it really matter what standards we follow?

think.
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out.
it.