Pepper sprayed for public safety.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

The single best thing that could happen to our economy would be for Congress and the White House to let us go off the fiscal cliff.

Funny how everyone believes in Keynesian economics again.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

And as I have stated many times over, no commercial institution is too big to fail.

There is no level of deconcentration that would have not led to bank bail outs in 2008.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

These aren't terribly complicated instruments. What I see are people who wish to live in an uncomplicated fashion refusing to meet the duties of what is, unfortunately, an ever more complicated world. They seem to be overwhelmed by all the bills they get and look at borrowing to pay for things as mere administrative events ("I go to a closing, sign something that tells me what to pay every month and then I get a house. Is it an ARM? Whatever. I'll just pay what it says.").

Dude, 45% of Republicans believe Obama is a muslim. Fifteen percent believe Romney is responsible for the death of Bin Laden. People are fucking stupid. Sure, any one individual can be blamed (hell, I do that shit all the time). But on the whole, the banking industry absolutely knows that people will borrow more than they can pay, especially if you tell them that they only have to pay $700/month for the first five years on an $800,000 5-1 ARM mortgage and that they shouldn't worry about what happens after the 5th year because you can just refinance! Property values never go down. Should we seek to reduce the number of people who will be suckered by such a pitch? Yes. Should we not also monitor these fucking banks who pile these suckers onto their lending rolls and then sell those loans upstream? Uh...yeah.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

We've taught millions of people to think before having sex - to avoid disease, pregnancy, or worse. And I have to assume it's worked and saved many otherwise ruined lives.

Sebby, you realize that millions of idiots have unprotected sex all the damn time, right?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

(By the way, between banks? Minimal regulation. I say leave banks to screw one another however they see fit short of criminal fraud. Sophisticated parties don't need Uncle Sam's handicapping. If some bank in Germany feels Goldman screwed it, let it sue Goldman, or screw them back somehow.)

Doesn't work in the bonus-driven world of Wall Street. I've said this a million times. Punishing an institution for the sins of a group of guys who have cashed out with HUGE bonuses paid for those sins doesn't make any sense. Everyone who acted like an asshole is either rich and/or gone. Letting Goldman Sachs fail punishes those at Goldman Sachs who haven't yet gotten huge bonuses. Besides, you can't isolate banks as the sole sophisticated players. Other governments (municipal and foreign), pension funds, etc. get fucked too. And that's what brings everyone down. You absolutely have to regulate the sellers of these fucked up products.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

The single best thing that could happen to our economy would be for Congress and the White House to let us go off the fiscal cliff.

Repeal of the Bush tax cuts is an imperative if we are serious about deficit reduction. Continuing to extend those tax breaks is going to break us. And the cuts in all spending areas would allow for a easy reduction in spending, and would allow a principled discussion about what spending needs to be in all areas.

Yes, it will be painful. But what possible better time to let the pain come than in the first years of a lame duck presidency? We need to let the Gov'mint beast die in order to recreate a new one that has focus and priorities that aren't beased on who needs to promise what to the voters to get re-elected.

You give the American people too much credit. That failure would be packaged, sold and bought as Democrats destroying our country, and we'd be stuck with Bushes and Romneys for the foreseeable future.

TM

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I'm not altogether unfamiliar with what the CFPB is doing from the perspective of the regulated party, and I really don't understand what all the bitching is about.

Reaching back to my Troskyite undergrad phase, when I insisted on being called "Nyet Robert", loudly asserted to one and all that Sandinista was far superior to London Calling, and organized the pickets at the counter-revolutionary Yugo dealership ("buy a little freedom, buy a Yugo" was Don Draper's finest work), I believe that this confession makes you what the Leninists called a "useful idiot" for the CFPB's Dark Masters from Mockba.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Just speaking as a healthcare lawyer, we're now a shit ton busier today thanks to the dithering of people in our industry who were CERTAIN that the ACA wasn't going to happen. There are a lot of people in healthcare who really were unprepared for this.

I think this comes from being in the South. Around here, the assumption was that the Supreme Court would have to be even more partisan and cynical than anyone believed possible for there to more than a couple votes for overturning ACA. The suprise wasn't that it survived, but that it was in any serious doubt among people with an IQ north of Hankville. Especially true among less politically focused administrative types.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

But on the whole, the banking industry absolutely knows that people will borrow more than they can pay, especially if you tell them that they only have to pay $700/month for the first five years on an $800,000 5-1 ARM mortgage and that they shouldn't worry about what happens after the 5th year because you can just refinance! Property values never go down.

People relied on bankers to not lend them more than they can afford. Which isn't entirely irrational. Why would be bank make a loan that the borrower can't repay?

Oh, wait.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Funny how everyone believes in Keynesian economics again.

I never stopped.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Adder

There is no level of deconcentration that would have not led to bank bail outs in 2008.

I would have let them fail and opened up the deposits and good loans for bidding.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

You give the American people too much credit. That failure would be packaged, sold and bought as Democrats destroying our country, and we'd be stuck with Bushes and Romneys for the foreseeable future.

TM

Obama would have four years to put a new government in place and if he lets it happen on Jan. 1 2013, he has two years before the midterms. I think the Republicans would be motivated to reach compromises. Besides, I find it hard principally to be strongly in favor of letting the tax breaks expire and extend the life of an unwieldy, unhealthy, and misbalanced bureaucracy.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

I never stopped.

You didn't, but many who are now making a big deal about the fiscal cliff did.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Adder

And not everyone is blessed with your iron-clad certainty about inherently uncertain outcomes.

I made several hundred dollars betting against conservative-media brainwashed Republicans. Even the day before the election, you could get 3 to 7 on Obama.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I think this comes from being in the South. Around here, the assumption was that the Supreme Court would have to be even more partisan and cynical than anyone believed possible for there to more than a couple votes for overturning ACA. The suprise wasn't that it survived, but that it was in any serious doubt among people with an IQ north of Hankville. Especially true among less politically focused administrative types.

Did all you big brains know it was going to be saved because there was a tax on poor/middle class in the vouchers?

I saw next to no commercials since I was in Mi or NY the entire post-convention months. I was shocked though there were no commercials that had Obama saying hcr will only tax people making over $250K followed by some way of summarizing the Supreme's decision.

[Hank Chinaski]

Thinking more about the rape issues, I'm just confused- it seems clear all the numbskulls making the idiotic statements hurt, but I have no idea how they got to talking about that.

Pro choice people support no real restriction in the way of abortion choice, right, but some republican or religious D legislatures pass laws that restrict the choice options- those restrictive laws are where the "rape/incest" exceptions come in, right? Like the Rs created the exceptions- so why are these people 1 talking about it and 2 denigrating them?

Honest question, how did any of these conversations come up?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Funny how everyone believes in Keynesian economics again.

Yes, getting the bill from Reagan and Bush 1 sort of doomed supply side economics for those of us with brains.