Towards A Virtual Williamsburg!

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Rape is a brutal and omnipresent thing in our society. It seems to be accepted by many and excused by more. People try to explain it as power or something else, and it undoubtedly has much to do with exerting not just power but a sick control, but it is more than that, it is not just about having power over someone but also about harming them, destroying them. An act of hate as well as power. Sex seems to come into play only because it makes the act more ruinous and hateful: what's the worst we can do to this person? I think these death threats are part of it, they're more would-be rapists getting their licks in. It's the mob piling on, not wanting to miss the lynching.

But I just find it too horrifying to comprehend or explain.

Rape is about taking a woman's sense of self away from her. To rape a woman is to say: you have no independence, you have no choice. I can and will take what I want from you. You are here for no purpose other than to serve my wants and desires. I need not ask. You are weak. You are not protected. I can have you at my whim.

Other than a dick or a hand going into a woman, in what way is that sexual?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

There's no way that this is about sex.

There are endless ways this is exactly about sex (and violence, but sex just as prominently). Punch "frustrated," "young male muslims," "unemployed," "unable to find wives, or relationships" and "Egypt" into Google and see what you get. The country is a notorious hotbed of sexually repressed, young, Arab males - a powder keg of male sexual aggression building to monstrous levels in a patriarchal culture.

Not about sex? Only if you're entirely unaware of the cultural backdrop before which these attacks occurred.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

Rape is about taking a woman's sense of self away from her. To rape a woman is to say: you have no independence, you have no choice. I can and will take what I want from you. You are here for no purpose other than to serve my wants and desires. I need not ask. You are weak. You are not protected. I can have you at my whim.

Other than a dick or a hand going into a woman, in what way is that sexual?

Because what you want to take from her is sex. How is that not sexual?

Perhaps in Tahrir Square or in war it's is also political, but in the instance of random sexual violence, the power is fleeting ( at least for the rapist) and limited to that one quasi-sexual encounter.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

Doesn't mean I don't like you, but you suffer from one of the most severe and crippling cases of confirmation bias I've ever witnessed.

So, after an official report from the institution reviewing all rapes over the last decade and finding that a very large portion of the total rapes on campus fit the upperclass officer / entering freshman situation, you wouldn't change your approach to policing the campus?

What, because the report confirmed a bias of mine?

Love you like a brother, too, man; and don't pay attention to what those other people say about you.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Nahh, cut off their penises and see.

Why not.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There are endless ways this is exactly about sex (and violence, but sex just as prominently). Punch "frustrated," "young male muslims," "unemployed," "unable to find wives, or relationships" and "Egypt" into Google and see what you get. The country is a notorious hotbed of sexually repressed, young, Arab males - a powder keg of male sexual aggression building to monstrous levels in a patriarchal culture.

Not about sex? Only if you're entirely unaware of the cultural backdrop before which these attacks occurred.

I'm very aware of the cultural backdrop.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

Because what you want to take from her is sex. How is that not sexual?

I do not understand why you are holding onto this so forcefully. Anyone in this country can find someone who wants to have sex with them or pay for sex at almost anytime. It sure as hell would be easier and less risky than raping someone.

Rape is about power and control. "I want to have sex with you right now and you can't stop me." And since only people with power perform rape, it seems obvious that that is the key component.

If I ran into you on the street and made you get on your hands and knees to clean my shoes to avoid me beating you to a pulp, it would not be about my desire for clean shoes. It would be about me exerting my power over you.

TM

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I do not understand why you are holding onto this so forcefully. Anyone in this country can find someone who wants to have sex with them or pay for sex at almost anytime. It sure as hell would be easier and less risky than raping someone.

Rape is about power and control. "I want to have sex with you right now and you can't stop me." And since only people with power perform rape, it seems obvious that that is the key component.

If I ran into you on the street and made you get on your hands and knees to clean my shoes to avoid me beating you to a pulp, it would not be about my desire for clean shoes. It would be about me exerting my power over you.

TM

given the sloppiness of Adder's posts, I'd bet you wouldn't even get clean shoes.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I'm very aware of the cultural backdrop.

Then you understand the strident tone when I say, No, it's not just about power. It is also about sex.

The truth is, this is a dumb debate. Clearly, rape is about both sex and power. A more thoughtful debate would be on the degree of each in the mix. But that's inherently subjective and doesn't provide good fodder for generalized disagreement. So instead we'll argue it's all one thing or another.

Or at least some of us will. I'll be in the corner with Adder, long-windedly attempting to state the obvious: It's about two things, which are not mutually exclusive.

(The interesting question to me is why people insist on taking absolute views on this. I don't know the genesis of the "it's all about power, and has nothing to do with sex" argument, and don't have much interest in examining it in depth, as the surface proofs are already lacking enough to all but convince me it's a waste of time [particularly in regard to the Tahrir Square assaults]. But it is interesting to see how people will fight that point with such zeal. Other than lawyers liking to argue, what makes such an obvious grey issue one which must be so black or white? I have my suspicions, but they'd probably cause "shoot the messenger" replies, and take the discussion off topic, so I'll keep them to myself.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Because what you want to take from her is sex. How is that not sexual?

Perhaps in Tahrir Square or in war it's is also political, but in the instance of random sexual violence, the power is fleeting ( at least for the rapist) and limited to that one quasi-sexual encounter.

Fingering a woman being attacked by a mob isn't taking sex. It's just a straight up battery. I can't even fathom what sort of kick the perpetrator gets from it. Which highlights the pathetic nature of both the attacker and the act. The men in Tahrir Square are so repressed and oppressed they'll stoop to digitally violating someone. The descriptions of the attacks are all similar: Mad dogs in a mob, disrobing and groping women in a lunatic, hormonal frenzy. These men have never known women in any healthy sense, sexually or otherwise. They're infantile, crazed... Where certain of their hopeless brethren satisfy their aggressive urges by joining jihads, these are the men who stayed home. Who have no jobs, no wives, no money, and no hope. The minute a woman is in their midst and can be violated, the mob of them run with the urges they'll otherwise never fulfill, in the only disturbing, sad way they can.

A young man who isn't getting laid is a tenuously pinned grenade. A crowd of them is a disaster waiting to happen. And it has everything to do with sex, or more aptly, the lack of it.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The interesting question to me is why people insist on taking absolute views on this.

Yes. I do not understand the insistence that it's in no way about sex. I'm sure there is a particular reason for it, but I don't know what it is.

To me, when you deny the obvious, you close off thinking about a key set of factors that could help reduce sexual violence.

[Adder]

I do not understand lawyers who mark up the fucking redline. You've been practicing how long? I send you a clean and a redline and you can't bother to make your changes in the clean?

That is all.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Adder

I do not understand lawyers who mark up the fucking redline. You've been practicing how long? I send you a clean and a redline and you can't bother to make your changes in the clean?

That is all.

It's about power. A balding fat partner who is not beating on some associate is a tenuously pinned grenade. A conference call of them is a disaster waiting to happen. And it has everything to do with power, or, more aptly, the lack of it.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Then you understand the strident tone when I say, No, it's not just about power. It is also about sex.

The truth is, this is a dumb debate. Clearly, rape is about both sex and power. A more thoughtful debate would be on the degree of each in the mix. But that's inherently subjective and doesn't provide good fodder for generalized disagreement. So instead we'll argue it's all one thing or another.

Or at least some of us will. I'll be in the corner with Adder, long-windedly attempting to state the obvious: It's about two things, which are not mutually exclusive.

(The interesting question to me is why people insist on taking absolute views on this. I don't know the genesis of the "it's all about power, and has nothing to do with sex" argument, and don't have much interest in examining it in depth, as the surface proofs are already lacking enough to all but convince me it's a waste of time [particularly in regard to the Tahrir Square assaults]. But it is interesting to see how people will fight that point with such zeal. Other than lawyers liking to argue, what makes such an obvious grey issue one which must be so black or white? I have my suspicions, but they'd probably cause "shoot the messenger" replies, and take the discussion off topic, so I'll keep them to myself.)

You need to just stop--especially because yesterday you ejaculated that male-on-male rape was somehow not as bad as male-on-female rape based on the fact that men fucking another man in a hole that they both have is somehow less bad.

Does that qualify as a shoot-the-messenger reply?

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

Yes. I do not understand the insistence that it's in no way about sex. I'm sure there is a particular reason for it, but I don't know what it is.

To me, when you deny the obvious, you close off thinking about a key set of factors that could help reduce sexual violence.

Jesus Christ, man. When you agree this violently with Sebby you gotta be thinking, "What the fuck is going on?"

I think you are misunderstanding what the fuck people are saying. I don't think there is a person in the world who would say rape isn't "about" sex. It's a sexual act. There is a sexual component. Yes, it's "about" sex.

The question is, "Why does it happen?" It happens because someone who is a position of power exercises that power over someone else. That is why people constantly say it is a crime "about" power and control.

Whatever. I'm done with this argument. It's fucking stupid.

TM