Towards A Virtual Williamsburg!

[dtb]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Things like this confirm for me that not giving a shit about American football is a good thing. The defense of the racist asshole by so many really says it all, no? My FB feed, full of commie pinko feminazis but apparently not full enough of them, runs strongly pro-asshole on this one.

Wow. Really? Pro asshole because of his ugly vulgarities, or because he's upholding the tough-guy, macho bullshit?

Either way, that's pretty disappointing, but even mores o if lots of people feel comfortable supporting ugly racist comments because of their racist content.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by dtb

Wow. Really? Pro asshole because of his ugly vulgarities, or because he's upholding the tough-guy, macho bullshit?

Either way, that's pretty disappointing, but even mores o if lots of people feel comfortable supporting ugly racist comments because of their racist content.

Comments of the "this is football - no crying, take it like a man, got a problem with him take it out on the playing field" variety. Or, "how do you bully 280 pounds of solid muscle?"

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by dtb

Either way, that's pretty disappointing, but even mores o if lots of people feel comfortable supporting ugly racist comments because of their racist content.

I haven't seen too many people defending the racist aspects of the voicemail. The support seems more to be of the NFL culture of bullying/hazing being part of it, and punching back being the other part of it. That is, pretty much the first few paragraphs of what Ty posted, which I thought might have been written by PLF.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Things like this confirm for me that not giving a shit about American football is a good thing. The defense of the racist asshole by so many really says it all, no? My FB feed, full of commie pinko feminazis but apparently not full enough of them, runs strongly pro-asshole on this one.

I think the "bullying crisis" is bullshit. It's a soft-headed fixation of bleeding hearts who need hobbies. Kids get picked on. Pledges, players, and employees get hazed and demeaned. It's part of life.

What's indefensible here is the use of slurs. That's stepping over the line. Nobody on any team or in any fraternity, or even in any instance of bullying in school I ever saw, engaged in something like that. There are lines, even in being a dick. This guy went way over the border of what is acceptable bullying. Hence, my dislike of the focus being on Incognito's "picking on" another player. Nobody cares about that. What's at issue here is racial hatred. That's indefensible.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Comments of the "this is football - no crying, take it like a man, got a problem with him take it out on the playing field" variety. Or, "how do you bully 280 pounds of solid muscle?"

The general reaction is more along the lines of what GGG says. See:

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphi...oom-for-martin

At worst, they say, he is a "jokester" with "no filter." Here, he showed no filter while allegedly molesting a young black woman:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/99...012-no-charges

Here he is, shirtless and loaded, screaming racial epithets and profanities in a bar in some steroid-induced rage:

http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/04/richie...ar-rage-video/

I know I should be fretting about the societal implications of bullying in the NFL locker room, but like I said, I could not care less what these guys do, except for the entertainment value, and this is highly entertaining stuff. I think the NFL should have Incognito and Martin star in some sort of halftime show special.

[ferrets_bueller]

There is an explosion of commentary on Incognito and the Dolphins. The best I've seen is by Tom Boswell in the Washington Post. He scorches the entire NFL and its accumulated atrocities. Feel free to disagree with any one or two of his examples. (Did Ray Lewis get away with murder?) But the overall indictment holds. Here is Boswell's column:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...769_story.html

Boswell also missed a point.

I have season tickets to the Redskins. The game day experience of tailgating is great. But once you get in FedEx field....and many other stadiums around the NFL, you face moronic louts in such great numbers that you wonder how these slathering drunkards walk upright, and indeed sometimes they can't. Don't get me wrong. I'm no teetotaler. I've been overserved by any number of unscrupulous innkeepers. But the puking obscenities by men, and it is mostly, but not exclusively men, are repulsive. The fans are taking cues from players, and vice-versa, in a widening circle offal.

The NFL is only a short bus ride from a breakdown. Teddy Roosevelt, (who, we later learn, had, shall we say, other issues) cleaned up college football from his bully pulpit. Time to do the same thing with the Gangster players and fans in the pro game.

Save football, and save ferrets.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I think the "bullying crisis" is bullshit. It's a soft-headed fixation of bleeding hearts who need hobbies. Kids get picked on. Pledges, players, and employees get hazed and demeaned. It's part of life.

What's indefensible here is the use of slurs. That's stepping over the line. Nobody on any team or in any fraternity, or even in any instance of bullying in school I ever saw, engaged in something like that. There are lines, even in being a dick. This guy went way over the border of what is acceptable bullying. Hence, my dislike of the focus being on Incognito's "picking on" another player. Nobody cares about that. What's at issue here is racial hatred. That's indefensible.

Sing it, brother. This ain't pickin on anybody, screaming a few insults, threatening the mater, promissing a friendly beat-down or two. Man, that's just boyz will be boyz. Now, my man Aaron Hernandez, he was a dude who knew how to pick on people. He'd teach that Incognito guy how to man up.

Give me a nice, friendly game of hockey over this shit any day.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

There is an explosion of commentary on Incognito and the Dolphins. The best I've seen is by Tom Boswell in the Washington Post. He scorches the entire NFL and its accumulated atrocities. Feel free to disagree with any one or two of his examples. (Did Ray Lewis get away with murder?) But the overall indictment holds. Here is Boswell's column:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...769_story.html

Boswell also missed a point.

I have season tickets to the Redskins. The game day experience of tailgating is great. But once you get in FedEx field....and many other stadiums around the NFL, you face moronic louts in such great numbers that you wonder how these slathering drunkards walk upright, and indeed sometimes they can't. Don't get me wrong. I'm no teetotaler. I've been overserved by any number of unscrupulous innkeepers. But the puking obscenities by men, and it is mostly, but not exclusively men, are repulsive. The fans are taking cues from players, and vice-versa, in a widening circle offal.

The NFL is only a short bus ride from a breakdown. Teddy Roosevelt, (who, we later learn, had, shall we say, other issues) cleaned up college football from his bully pulpit. Time to do the same thing with the Gangster players and fans in the pro game.

Save football, and save ferrets.

How do you even make it from your tailgate party to the stadium without encountering this behavior? Attending football games is miserable these days because it's an excuse men use to get totally loaded and behave like, well, Richie Incognito.

I think Ray Lewis got away with ordering a murder, FWIW. But it's okay, because he found god.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

How do you even make it from your tailgate party to the stadium without encountering this behavior? Attending football games is miserable these days because it's an excuse men use to get totally loaded and behave like, well, Richie Incognito.

I think Ray Lewis got away with ordering a murder, FWIW. But it's okay, because he found god.

I haven't really encountered much of this in the 12 years that I've had Texans tickets. There have been some issues up in the top levels, but by and large, it's always been a pretty decent place to watch football. Granted, the people around me are generally also PSL holders and we've known each other since the 2002 season. But opposing fans around us have always commented that it's a downright pleasant experience to come to our stadium.

I do think that the NFL is at a crossroads right now where it's suddenly asked to be part of the modern era, and it's kicking and screaming the whole way as it "evolves". Attitudes about the possibility of gay players. Concern about head injuries/CTE. (Tony Dorsett is the latest, though I was interested that he said in one article that he was told it could be reversed.) An awareness of a female audience. Now scrutiny over bullying and hazing and the bullshit tough guy attitudes that were addressed in the article Ty posted. Some of these issues (like the female audience, given the demographics I see at games every other week in the fall and winter) it has been fairly good addressing, but others have resulted in major missteps and all out fuckups.

My husband is pulling back from football and focusing his rooting interests in soccer instead. One of my regular companions at games declined an offer to go to the Sunday night game because she was so put off by the Frontline documentary. (I saw it too, and the comparison to Big Tobacco is apt.) Increasingly, I suspect that I'll not renew my season tickets eventually, which was unthinkable when I bought the PSL in 2001.

At times, I agree with a lot of people who think that the NFL is at its peak and will fall soon. But then I remember that it's not just the NFL, but thousands of high schools and colleges across the country. Getting the NFL to change because of economics is one thing. Getting emotionally invested booster clubs at square state universities? That's an entirely different story. It'd be a massive cultural shift that I'm not sure the country wants. OTOH, I'm probably one of those who wouldn't let her kid play football, knowing what I know currently about the head trauma issues.

Going back to the fan stuff, Real Sports with Bryant Gumble had a fairly decent piece on fan on fan violence last year.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

The NFL is only a short bus ride from a breakdown.

I have a hard time watching the game because of the injuries. And I won't let my kids play football. With the increasing understanding of what the game does to the players, I wouldn't go long NFL stock.

eta: Turns out this is really more of a response to RT's post.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller

The fans are taking cues from players, and vice-versa, in a widening circle offal.

this part is just not true. The players are locked in a protected cage and fed any number of drugs (at least they were. In the novel "North Dallas Forty" the protagonist complained about the o-line because they all took speed, but were so poorly trained on doing it they tended to peak a few hours after the games). Whether the behavior of players in the confines of the team relationship is objectionable strikes me as the same question Colonel Jessup posed in a Few Good men.

The fans otoh are out of control. I took my kids to a few Lions game and we sat in the Club Level. Even that was drunken ugly. Two games and I was out of ever doing that.

they sell beer and booze way too freely. In fact, there is little else to buy. What percentage of commercials are for beer during an average NFL game? The drunken fans are a result of the teams and the league wanting to ring that cash register.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

this part is just not true. The players are locked in a protected cage and fed any number of drugs (at least they were. In the novel "North Dallas Forty" the protagonist complained about the o-line because they all took speed, but were so poorly trained on doing it they tended to peak a few hours after the games). Whether the behavior of players in the confines of the team relationship is objectionable strikes me as the same question Colonel Jessup posed in a Few Good men.

The fans otoh are out of control. I took my kids to a few Lions game and we sat in the Club Level. Even that was drunken ugly. Two games and I was out of ever doing that.

they sell beer and booze way too freely. In fact, there is little else to buy. What percentage of commercials are for beer during an average NFL game? The drunken fans are a result of the teams and the league wanting to ring that cash register.

You've all become a bunch of pussies.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by bold_n_brazen

You've all become a bunch of pussies.

2. You fucking pussies need to toughen the fuck up. I'm gonna shit in each of your mouths while I'm fucking your sisters in the ass and slapping your bitch ass mothers across their fucking faces. I'm gonna stretch your sisters' cunts out and make them walk funny, and then I'm gonna fucking kill all you pussy ass cunt fucks. Internet law chatting boards aren't for fucking pussy ass faggot fuck pussies. I'm saying these things because I love you all and want you to succeed in this jungle.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

2. You fucking pussies need to toughen the fuck up. I'm gonna shit in each of your mouths while I'm fucking your sisters in the ass and slapping your bitch ass mothers across their fucking faces. I'm gonna stretch your sisters' cunts out and make them walk funny, and then I'm gonna fucking kill all you pussy ass cunt fucks. Internet law chatting boards aren't for fucking pussy ass faggot fuck pussies. I'm saying these things because I love you all and want you to succeed in this jungle.

really fucking funny....... my one sister has a colostomy bag

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by bold_n_brazen

You've all become a bunch of pussies.

You should take the Brazenette to an Iggles game.