Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The fact that it's hackneyed makes it easy to miss how mean-spirited it is.

Finally. An explanation of Hank's sense of humor.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Finally. An explanation of Hank's sense of humor.

And the focus on a run of the mill fat joke proves the guy lives despite truly hateful Jew jokes. Sad.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

And the focus on a run of the mill fat joke proves the guy lives despite truly grateful Jew jokes. Sad.

Both "Jews control the music industry" and "Jewish women don't suck dick" are the kinds of jokes someone might hear a Jewish comic say (certainly Mr. Kasher comes to mind) and incorrectly think those jokes are fair game.

"Fat girls are pathetic and only attractive to drunks," "Adele's fat and singing so it must be over, " "it's funny to think about using an upper cut on that evil bitch who doesn't love you back" and "prostitutes are just like fast food; look at my lame pun" are the kinds of things you'd hear around a stereotypical frat house and only repeat if you didn't realize that there are women in the world too (all of whom have been criticized for the weight at some point in their lives).

The first demonstrates a lack of understanding of the importance of context. The second demonstrates a disregard or failure to understand the cruelty inherent in the joke.

And yeah, obviously each of those paraphrases is imperfect.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Adder

Both "Jews control the music industry" and "Jewish women don't suck dick" are the kinds of jokes someone might hear a Jewish comic say (certainly Mr. Kasher comes to mind) and incorrectly think those jokes are fair game.

"Fat girls are pathetic and only attractive to drunks," "Adele's fat and singing so it must be over, " "it's funny to think about using an upper cut on that evil bitch who doesn't love you back" and "prostitutes are just like fast food; look at my lame pun" are the kinds of things you'd hear around a stereotypical frat house and only repeat if you didn't realize that there are women in the world too (all of whom have been criticized for the weight at some point in their lives).

The first demonstrates a lack of understanding of the importance of context. The second demonstrates a disregard or failure to understand the cruelty inherent in the joke.

And yeah, obviously each of those paraphrases is imperfect.

I know you (and ty) don't see that you are injecting your own issues and dismissing how awful Jew jokes are, but you are. Anyway I am done here.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I know you (and ty) don't see that you are injecting your own issues

Are you calling me fat?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

That joke is mocking the fat girls for imagining that they could be seen as attractive -- it's awful.

And Adele is large, so that joke turned on it being over when the fat lady sings -- hardly better, but not quite as cruel.

These jokes don't bother me. He's a fucking comedian. Comedians make jokes about fat people.

The Jew jokes (and the willingness to go back to that well) are troubling.

The uppercut joke is just stupid.

The point of the joke has to be the stereotype. Using stereotypes to make jokes is a different animal. It is very difficult to do in a one-off situation like Twitter.

His stand-up special started off really promising. He had a unique perspective on the world and the US given his upbringing in South Africa and his mixed-race status. But he ran out of material pretty quickly and ended up just doing stereotypical impressions of American blacks (no one specific).

He has talent, and I imagine Stewart's writers are all being paid huge amounts to stay on and write for this guy. But if Stewart's production company hands the show off to him (and why would it?), it ain't gonna be pretty.

Here's his response: http://www.salon.com/2015/03/31/trev..._my_character/

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

And the focus on a run of the mill fat joke proves the guy lives despite truly hateful Jew jokes. Sad.

Based on the limited sample size provided, he certainly seems more obsessed with Jews than fats. Which is a little odd, coming from South Africa. Anyway, not sure what you and I are disagreeing about, if anything. eta: Have you read the Ishiguro yet? Is it good?

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

These jokes don't bother me. He's a fucking comedian.

His stuff is just so bad, though. Lame.

Comedians make jokes about fat people.

I suppose it's possible to do that in a way that is creative and funny, but if so, he hasn't found it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Based on the limited sample size provided, he certainly seems more obsessed with Jews than fats. Which is a little odd, coming from South Africa. Anyway, not sure what you and I are disagreeing about, if anything. eta: Have you read the Ishiguro yet? Is it good?

I think you look at the world the third closest to me of socks here. T is first then Atticus then u. We aren't disagreeing I just don't think you can stop fat girl jokes. Ishiguro sits on my night stand. I will jump in soon.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Here's his response: http://www.salon.com/2015/03/31/trev..._my_character/

TM

"I've evolved" is kind of lame, too. But funnier than much of his stuff.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

His stuff is just so bad, though. Lame.

I suppose it's possible to do that in a way that is creative and funny, but if so, he hasn't found it.

Good fucking grief. How the hell do you know?

Are you truly basing your opinion of his entire career on the 4 jokes picked because of their offensiveness? Or have you been watching his stuff all this time? Do you think any comedian (Stewart included) didn't have crappy jokes like this throughout their career?

I think it's insane that people judge this guy on a handful of jokes they don't like without listing the tons of jokes they probably would.

TM

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Adder

I don't think anyone posting jokes to twitter completely avoids Not Funny, but it's important in which way they are Not Funny, and the level of misogyny seems to be the most troubling part.

I'm sure the vast majority of people posting jokes to twitter make a lot of Not Funny ones. Maybe virtually all of them.

But virtually all people posting jokes to twitter do not get selected to host a national comedy show. So, he's exceptional on this point, but not on the above point, and that's sad.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

"I've evolved" is kind of lame, too. But funnier than much of his stuff.

Another one.

Yep. He probably hasn't evolved and shouldn't be allowed to. He probably should just step down because people won't be happy unless his comedic history reads like Stewart's, post 2003.

Ridiculous.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

But virtually all people posting jokes to twitter do not get selected to host a national comedy show. So, he's exceptional on this point, but not on the above point, and that's sad.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying he was chosen because of his twitter career? Or are you saying that comedians (in positions to get talk shows) don't post jokes on twitter? I'm hoping it's something else because neither of those things makes a lick of sense.

TM

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

These jokes don't bother me. He's a fucking comedian. Comedians make jokes about fat people.

I agree. I once saw a black comedian (can't remember who it was -- no one particularly famous, at least at the time) do a thoroughly hilarious run of jokes about "fat black women." Several such women in the audience were gasping with laughter.

What bothered me about these jokes was they were bad, lame, the kind of jokes we told in 6th grade.

The Jew jokes (and the willingness to go back to that well) are troubling.

Those bother me more, but I don't have a categorical objection to these or, really, any other tasteless and offensive jokes. But the "edgier" the joke gets, the funnier it better be. The same guy I reference above did a whole sequence on stereotypes and how there was truth behind all of them. And, again, hilarious. But he knew he was taking a big risk and knew that it better be funny enough to be worth it.

The uppercut joke is just stupid.

Yes, awful. A joke about hitting women pushes boundaries so far that it's hard to imagine one being funny enough to be worth it. That one wasn't close.

The point of the joke has to be the stereotype. Using stereotypes to make jokes is a different animal. It is very difficult to do in a one-off situation like Twitter.

Agree. And this is a small sample-size, I acknowledge -- but the sense that he didn't "get" this basic issue, didn't realize that what he posted was so un-funny as to just make him look like an asshole, is sad.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying he was chosen because of his twitter career? Or are you saying that comedians (in positions to get talk shows) don't post jokes on twitter? I'm hoping it's something else because neither of those things makes a lick of sense.

TM

I'm saying that I acknowledge having only a small sample size, but that small sample size is a bunch of consistently awful jokes. Not awful because they are offensive, but because they aren't funny and are stupid.

He could be a fantastically good comedian. The selection here could be horribly unfair, a completely unrepresentative .0001% of the jokes he's told. But it's the sample that I'm looking at and I don't just write it off as irrelevant just because "lots of people tell bad jokes on twitter." So what? Lots of people tell bad jokes everywhere. The vast majority of people would also suck ass in a stand-up routine, and if Noah also sucked ass at stand-up you wouldn't say "it's okay, most people would do badly there."

What you're saying -- essentially, "yes, these jokes suck, but his stand-up is good and that's more relevant to the job he'll have, especially since he probably won't be writing his own material" -- is a different and sensible response. I don't agree or disagree with it, because I haven't seen his stand-up. But it's a qualitatively different response than saying "it's okay, lots of people come across as unfunny or bigoted on twitter."