I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

What is the action or inaction in relation to voting that makes me a selfish ass?

The part where you said that you think one candidate will lead to bad outcomes but you don't care because you and yours will be insulated from them.

Again, I don't really care who you vote for and I'm not even urging you to vote one way or the other. I'm pointing out that your self-described reasoning is messed up.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Understood. Totally reasonable.

If it's any consolation, most of the Trumpkins seem focused more on her last name than her sex. We're ready for a woman president. She just brought a ton of baggage that made her candidacy problematic.

I think this is my first post ever on the politics board, but I cannot let this horseshit stand. No, no, a thousand times no!

You have it backwards. The vocal Trump supporters, and Trump himself, cannot stand to be beaten by a woman. They were pissed off enough to have a black man running the country, but now, a woman? Simply unfathomable. The Clinton name gives them the ammo they need to fuel their hatred, but the sexism is undeniable. Sexist cliches are not only acceptable, but promoted in the campaigning -- "trump the bitch", anyone? She's being called a cunt by public individuals on twitter. Even the whole "nasty woman" fuckery. And the idea that she's responsible for her husband screwing around.

Of course the country is ready for a female president. The vocal Trump supporters, however, are not.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

The part where you said that you think one candidate will lead to bad outcomes but you don't care because you and yours will be insulated from them.

Again, I don't really care who you vote for and I'm not even urging you to vote one way or the other. I'm pointing out that your self-described reasoning is messed up.

So, I have an obligation to share your concern. And since Trump fans are using the same reasoning on me, I have an obligation to share their concerns.

But I'm an ogre for not caring about either side?

I think you're all being hysterical.

If I were truly selfish, HRC's the obvious choice. The market's already speaking on that. Comey's Sunday letter has driven it 250 points last I looked.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick

I think this is my first post ever on the politics board, but I cannot let this horseshit stand. No, no, a thousand times no!

You have it backwards. The vocal Trump supporters, and Trump himself, cannot stand to be beaten by a woman. They were pissed off enough to have a black man running the country, but now, a woman? Simply unfathomable. The Clinton name gives them the ammo they need to fuel their hatred, but the sexism is undeniable. Sexist cliches are not only acceptable, but promoted in the campaigning -- "trump the bitch", anyone? She's being called a cunt by public individuals on twitter. Even the whole "nasty woman" fuckery. And the idea that she's responsible for her husband screwing around.

Of course the country is ready for a female president. The vocal Trump supporters, however, are not.

I'll admit the Trumpkins to which I'm exposed are a more moderate stripe. They're mostly focused on taxes and growth. They seem to think Trump will benefit small and mid-sized business. I don't have much exposure to the redneck Trumpkins.

I still believe, however, that the Clinton name is far more than mere cover. This same hatred was aimed at her husband.

ETA: I think the Left needs to be a little more judicious in throwing allegations of sexism and racism. It is tiring to hear everyone who disagrees with progressives smeared at least to some small extent as a racist or sexist. The Dems can smear Trump with this stuff, but they should be careful about overusing those attacks on all non-progressives. High risk of desensitization, and backlash.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Moot now.

And yet still telling, in it's way.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick

Of course the country is ready for a female president.

My daughter is making her own Hillary shirt and sign so that she can stand outside a polling place before and after school tomorrow. Go her!

eta: And go Florida!

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

So, I have an obligation to share your concern.

If you want to consider yourself a good person, you should be against the candidate whose election you believe will harm others even if you will personally be fine. In a contest between that candidate and one you personally believe will not lead to the same harm, you should be for the latter candidate.

And again, this isn't about voting for Hillary. If you think Hillary will lead to greater harm than Trump, then by all means, vote for Johnson (or Trump).

But what you said is that there will be dire consequences from electing Trump but you don't care because they won't affect you. That's messed up.

ETA: Oh, and it's not my concern. It was your concern. I didn't say electing Trump will lead to a recession that we will be insulated from. You did.

And since Trump fans are using the same reasoning on me

I very much doubt that you have any Trump fans telling you that you should vote Hillary if you think electing Trump would cause greater harm.

I think you're all being hysterical.

Great word choice. Top notch.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

ETA: I think the Left needs to be a little more judicious in throwing allegations of sexism and racism. It is tiring to hear everyone who disagrees with progressives smeared at least to some small extent as a racist or sexist. The Dems can smear Trump with this stuff, but they should be careful about overusing those attacks on all non-progressives. High risk of desensitization, and backlash.

No, I will continue to call it when I see it. If someone doesn't like being told they're being an asshole, it's not up to me to make them happy.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I still believe, however, that the Clinton name is far more than mere cover. This same hatred was aimed at her husband.

ETA: I think the Left needs to be a little more judicious in throwing allegations of sexism and racism.

Clearly not, as you don't get it at all.

It is tiring to hear everyone who disagrees with progressives smeared at least to some small extent as a racist or sexist.

Here's a very simple tip for not sounding like an asshat on these issues: don't tell women and people of color that they're wrong about sexism and racism.

Three women have written on this topic on this board. Listen to them.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Clearly not, as you don't get it at all.



Here's a very simple tip for not sounding like an asshat on these issues: don't tell women and people of color that they're wrong about sexism and racism.

Three women have written on this topic on this board. Listen to them.

I disagree with progressives on most economic policies. I also support black lives matter and couldn't care less about the sex of our president. Am I nevertheless racist or sexist?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick

No, I will continue to call it when I see it. If someone doesn't like being told they're being an asshole, it's not up to me to make them happy.

But what about the backlash? The racists and sexists might be unhappy when they're told they're assholes, and then what?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I disagree with progressives on most economic policies.

Which is funny in its own way, since Democrats have done a much better job running the economy than Republicans over the last few decades.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick

No, I will continue to call it when I see it. If someone doesn't like being told they're being an asshole, it's not up to me to make them happy.

Obviously I've never cared about being called anything. I just don't think anyone can call socially liberal temperate libertarians such as me (and there are a lot of us out there) sexists and racists.

I have a somewhat live and let die attitude. I don't think interventionist govt is good for much. That is selfish, I guess one could creatively argue. But I'm pro-immigration, pro-trade, and pro prison and justice reform. It gets annoying to be told I'm as good as a racist or sexist for "enabling" Trumpkins by voting for Johnson.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Which is funny in its own way, since Democrats have done a much better job running the economy than Republicans over the last few decades.

For large corporations, yes. For small business, fuck no.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

But what about the backlash? The racists and sexists might be unhappy when they're told they're assholes, and then what?

The backlash is when moderates like me tire of it and start adopting a "boy crying wolf" narrative to dismiss it.

I'm in the middle. Don't make me the enemy.