Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

That's a policy gain in the same way that it would be if the government seized the entire company.

I actually think closing tax loopholes can lead to real world efficiency gains, but even if you do not, changing the incentives of those deciding whether or not to buy back is not merely confiscatory. Who knows what wonderous things they might suddenly discover to invest in if they didn't have the alternative option of using company cash to enhance the value of their holdings.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

The NFL would truly suck if every team finished 8-8.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I hope it's not that some teams do better, which makes the League so much better. Because they play a sport with forced parity, unlike MLB where everyone constantly bitches and moans about the advantage big market teams have.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

I actually think closing tax loopholes can lead to real world efficiency gains, but even if you do not, changing the incentives of those deciding whether or not to buy back is not merely confiscatory. Who knows what wonderous things they might suddenly discover to invest in if they didn't have the alternative option of using company cash to enhance the value of their holdings.

But you didn't identify a tax loophole. A distribution of cash would be taxed. Appreciation in the stock would be taxed, too, and the sellers of shares of stock bought back pay taxes on their gains.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I hope it's not that some teams do better, which makes the League so much better. Because they play a sport with forced parity, unlike MLB where everyone constantly bitches and moans about the advantage big market teams have.

TM

I would rather live in an egalitarian society, but I think a lot of people like living in a stratified world where some people have more status than others. It's not just an indifference to human suffering. Many people in the limousines would be less happy if everyone had the same limousine. Public conversations about inequality rarely mention this, but it seems to me like the biggest obstacle to living in a more equal society.

I know the phenomenon is not news to you, so I don't mean to sound like I'm telling you something you don't know.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I would rather live in an egalitarian society, but I think a lot of people like living in a stratified world where some people have more status than others. It's not just an indifference to human suffering. Many people in the limousines would be less happy if everyone had the same limousine. Public conversations about inequality rarely mention this, but it seems to me like the biggest obstacle to living in a more equal society.

I know the phenomenon is not news to you, so I don't mean to sound like I'm telling you something you don't know.

I'm 6' 11".

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I would rather live in an egalitarian society, but I think a lot of people like living in a stratified world where some people have more status than others. It's not just an indifference to human suffering. Many people in the limousines would be less happy if everyone had the same limousine. Public conversations about inequality rarely mention this, but it seems to me like the biggest obstacle to living in a more equal society.

I know the phenomenon is not news to you, so I don't mean to sound like I'm telling you something you don't know.

I think we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about pure equality through socialism. The NFL is egalitarian in that every team has the same rights and opportunities. It is completely artificial and designed. Those who succeed over time are doing it based on skill and insight. I think everyone on this board believes this is how it should be. The Patriots deserve to reap the benefits of their sustained success. The Jets deserve to wallow in mediocrity. However, no team deserves to have no shot ever. And they've designed the League to make sure that if you're on the bottom for too long, it's because of your incompetence, not your opportunity.

Are you arguing that the NFL should look more like the MLB?

TM

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I would rather live in an egalitarian society, but I think a lot of people like living in a stratified world where some people have more status than others. It's not just an indifference to human suffering. Many people in the limousines would be less happy if everyone had the same limousine. Public conversations about inequality rarely mention this, but it seems to me like the biggest obstacle to living in a more equal society.

I know the phenomenon is not news to you, so I don't mean to sound like I'm telling you something you don't know.

I think you're right. But I don't think that's an innately human trait. It's learned. It can be unlearned.

If you give me the choice of $X + Status, or $XXX + No Status, I'm taking the latter all day long. I think the majority of people think as I do. "Life's short. I just want whatever I need to trade for things and experiences that are fun." It's a thin slice of people with an insecurity, or a void, who need to measure themselves against others. They are unenlightened. They should be made to take psychedelics and understand:

It's just a game. Don't get caught up in thinking the game is real. One day it will end, and all that worry will have been for nothing.

https://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-M.../dp/1594204225 (The book is awesome.)

(I need to try DMT. Meet the "mechanical elves.")

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I'm not saying they're all ogres. I'm saying they're all fucking selfish assholes. If you don't push back against the actual government waste instead of using it to coat your unbelievably broad brush you use to say all government is wasteful so I'll just vote my wallet because you just don't like paying taxes, you're full of shit. These people are how we end up with a fucking little shit-rat like Grover Norquist wielding actual fucking power over the entire government.

And picking and choosing which shit you don't like paying for such that you are a wallet-only voter is fucking stupid. There are all sorts of shit I don't want to pay for. But this is a democracy. A society. Sometimes you lose, but in the grand scheme you win. We live in the richest country in the world with the greatest economy. To get to that point, it costs fucking money in the form of investment in ourselves, collectively. Wallet-voters have taken advantage of all that to enrich themselves and now they want to opt out of paying. Fuck them all. Either work to figure out where we can eliminate legitimate waste or shut the fuck up.

You're just describing different levels of selfish assholes. It's all the same shit whether you're talking about these assholes or the parents in whatever suburb who continually fight to have the boundaries of their school districts reduced so that their taxes never pay for a public education for someone who isn't in their income bracket. It's all the same.

TM

People have a right to be selfish. You can chide them for it. And you should. But people have that right.

I do not think people have a right to fix the game. It's one thing to not give a shit about others. But when you work to make sure they never have a chance, you're doing something different. When you rig the system, you're not saying, "You're on your own little guy... good fucking luck." You're instead saying, "You've got no chance because I have the ability to fix society so you cannot do better."

The difference is, with the latter, you are anti-competitive. In the former, you're just selfish. You're correct that these behaviors can be seen as a continuum of thinking. But I think fixing the game trends from libertarianism into unethical, perhaps quasi-criminal behavior.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.

We're both atheists.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I think we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about pure equality through socialism. The NFL is egalitarian in that every team has the same rights and opportunities. It is completely artificial and designed. Those who succeed over time are doing it based on skill and insight. I think everyone on this board believes this is how it should be. The Patriots deserve to reap the benefits of their sustained success. The Jets deserve to wallow in mediocrity. However, no team deserves to have no shot ever. And they've designed the League to make sure that if you're on the bottom for too long, it's because of your incompetence, not your opportunity.

Are you arguing that the NFL should look more like the MLB?

TM

No, I was trying to suggest that there is a widespread appetite for competitions with winners and losers. The NFL should change its rules to make the game more entertaining for its fans, preferably with fewer head injuries. Our society should change its rules to provide for more equality of opportunity and, if not socialism or equality of result, a better safety net to make sure that the worse off are not too badly off. The NFL, in its infinite wisdom, divides television revenue relatively evenly, so that the Patriots don't get that much more for winning than the Jets do for being the Jets. As with society, there is quite a lot of contingency in how this works -- the NFL is more able to do this than MLB because the national broadcast rights are so valuable and trump local broadcasts. The MLB continues with huge income disparities between teams that are a function of local TV markets, not success on the field. That kind of inequality has a disturbing way of perpetuating itself.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I’ve two kids trying to sort out careers now (my son is back!!!) and I have no advice where to go that will have legs for 40 years.

I'm really glad to hear that your son is back. I hope he does well. Let any of us know if we can help in any way.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Yup. Nick Hanauer was the canary in the coal mine on this years ago: https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...tocrats-108014

But you know this perhaps way better than I do, so I’ll ask, if you’ve ever discussed this issue with finance professionals, what do you hear? Because I hear this really creepy refrain: “Well, inevitably all cultures stratify, sort of like old English class structures.”

Fuck that. I’m a prick and rather live-and-let-die, but I’d rather live under a bridge than in a society that tolerates that thinking. That’s not competition. That’s not libertarianism even. That’s the fixed game Wolf describes. That’s punching down, and punching down should cost you your teeth.

Which is why I could vote for Warren.

It's even more fixed.

Over 43% of white admitted students at Harvard are legacies, athletes, donors, or faculty/staff children. “Our model of admissions shows that roughly three quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if they had been treated as white non-ALDCs.”

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Was making small talk to the man at my bodega at 93rd and Broadway last night. They tore down the Europan next door and are fixing to built a tall apartment or condo. I miss the Europan. But I said “well you guys will be getting lots more business right?”

He said “that’s what people said when they built the apartment on the other side, but everyone gets everything from Amazon now.”

A bodega isn’t for considered shopping. There is a market a block down. The bodega is for walking back after dinner and realizing you need Pellegrino. I don’t get how Amazon impacts it. But it does.

I’ve two kids trying to sort out careers now (my son is back!!!) and I have no advice where to go that will have legs for 40 years.

At the beach a few years ago, we were running up to a corner store to get Q and Fever Tree tonic for drinks (stuff is addictive... so good). A buddy with Prime said we were wasting money. Case of Q arrived two days later. Saved us a bunch of money.

I like the savings, but it kind of creeps me out. People are already “bowling alone,” as that famous book was titled. I think all of this home delivery stuff is making us even less socially connected, and a lot weirder.

Millennials can’t even hold proper conversations. They get mad if you call them instead of texting. And the even younger kids are still stranger yet.

If you can’t hold a conversation, you aren’t going anywhere. Unless you’re some freak in Silicon Valley or a quant fund. Tell your kids to become “personality coaches.”

Fucking coaching... That’s another sad development. Executives need coaches? For what? Nobody did that shit in the past. It’s McWork. Fucking nonsense.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I'm really glad to hear that your son is back. I hope he does well. Let any of us know if we can help in any way.

The place outside Dallas is apparently one of the toughest places in the country. He has stories!

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The place outside Dallas is apparently one of the toughest places in the country. He has stories!

and a mentor to help him tell his stories?