This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

Yeah, just like Donny Osmond.



Well-produced songs. Without his previous success, they'd be pop footnotes.



He may have done as well as Donna Summer did with Georgio Moroder, which is fantastic stuff. The Quincy produced stuff, however, is timeless. Needless, to say, everybody was playing MJ at all the bars last night. It's amazing how contemporary it sounds. That is not MJ, that's Quincy.



Oh, sure, I would have never heard Frank Sinatra's "Fly Me to the Moon."



Quincy had a remarkable career long before, and long after his collaboration with Michael Jackson. You are deluded.

Whatever. This argument is stupid but it's all on your side. I believe they were two hugely talented people who combined to make incredible music. You believe it was all Quincy. You're welcome to think that based on those two stances that I'm the one whose deluded, but you'd be...well...you know.*

Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

Take her dick out of your mouth and tell her yourself.

I'll leave the implication on your mental health of that image of your mother for you to deal with on your own. Good luck.

TM

*Retarded.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

I think the live ball should be in the Hall of Fame instead of Ruth.

I agree with this. It's not about Michael or Quincy. It's really all about MTV. And the Ed Sullivan Show.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Where do you stand on the eternal Miller Huggins / Babe Ruth controversy?

Just don't get him started on Shaq and Kobe.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Whatever. This argument is stupid but it's all on your side. I believe they were two hugely talented people who combined to make incredible music. You believe it was all Quincy. You're welcome to think that based on those two stances that I'm the one whose deluded, but you'd be...well...you know.

Jackson had 13 #1 singles. 10 of these were produced by Jones. It's about the same ratio for his Top 10s.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

Jackson had 13 #1 singles. 10 of these were produced by Jones. It's about the same ratio for his Top 10s.

Let me get this straight -- your case is that all his best work was either with the Jackson Five OR on "Off the Wall" OR on "Thriller" OR on "Bad"? Shit, dude, if we gave up on folks just because they started sucking in 1987, we'd all have PLF on ignore.

[ltl/fb]

Eom

[Shape Shifter]

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

Bullshit. QJ produced and arranged Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad. Other than his work with the Jackson 5, what else did he do of significance?

Sure, MJ was a talented performer. But there was a wizard behind the curtains.

Well then every band doesn't deserve its accolades. Because the Stones had Jimmy Miller, the Beatles had George Martin, the Allmans had Tom Dowd (fucking genius), half of the best modern rap had Dr. Dre, the Beasties had the Dust Brothers, as did Beck, etc...

Are all these bands unimpressive because they had great producers behind them? Jones is a genius, but Michael Jackson was a 80% of that package, and that's being kind to Jones.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Well then every band doesn't deserve its accolades. Because the Stones had Jimmy Miller, the Beatles had George Martin, the Allmans had Tom Dowd (fucking genius), half of the best modern rap had Dr. Dre, the Beasties had the Dust Brothers, as did Beck, etc...

Are all these bands unimpressive because they had great producers behind them? Jones is a genius, but Michael Jackson was a 80% of that package, and that's being kind to Jones.

The Beatles themselves often referred to Martin as the 5th Beatle. At any rate, all of the Beatles except for Ringo had significant solo careers without Martin. The Allman Brothers? Surely you understand the difference between producing someone like Michael Jackson and a jam band. They made their name as a live act. Where was their producer then? Your inclusion of Dr. Dre merely reinforces my point, and the Beasties achieved commercial and critical success with different producers.

A lot of what goes into a Michael Jackson song is not Michael Jackson. Someone needs to arrange the music -- decide which instruments should be used where, how loud, what sound, etc. And the person who decided that on the albums that made Michael Jackson the pop icon he is was Quincy Jones.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

The Beatles themselves often referred to Martin as the 5th Beatle. At any rate, all of the Beatles except for Ringo had significant solo careers without Martin. The Allman Brothers? Surely you understand the difference between producing someone like Michael Jackson and a jam band. They made their name as a live act. Where was their producer then? Your inclusion of Dr. Dre merely reinforces my point, and the Beasties achieved commercial and critical success with different producers.

A lot of what goes into a Michael Jackson song is not Michael Jackson. Someone needs to arrange the music -- decide which instruments should be used where, how loud, what sound, etc. And the person who decided that on the albums that made Michael Jackson the pop icon he is was Quincy Jones.

Or, the music industry improperly rewards contributors who did not dominate the creation of their artistic products, if you will.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Well then every band doesn't deserve its accolades. Because the Stones had Jimmy Miller, the Beatles had George Martin, the Allmans had Tom Dowd (fucking genius), half of the best modern rap had Dr. Dre, the Beasties had the Dust Brothers, as did Beck, etc...

Zeppellin?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

The Beatles themselves often referred to Martin as the 5th Beatle. At any rate, all of the Beatles except for Ringo had significant solo careers without Martin. The Allman Brothers? Surely you understand the difference between producing someone like Michael Jackson and a jam band. They made their name as a live act. Where was their producer then? Your inclusion of Dr. Dre merely reinforces my point, and the Beasties achieved commercial and critical success with different producers.

A lot of what goes into a Michael Jackson song is not Michael Jackson. Someone needs to arrange the music -- decide which instruments should be used where, how loud, what sound, etc. And the person who decided that on the albums that made Michael Jackson the pop icon he is was Quincy Jones.

Watching the very beginning of the 20/20 two hour special tonight has reminded me that we should instead perhaps consider condemning MJ for the rash of craptackular "bands" that dance more than they sing that have been the scourge of pop music since.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

Or, the music industry improperly rewards contributors who did not dominate the creation of their artistic products, if you will.

I made the dominate joke before. am i on ignore?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I made the dominate joke before. am i on ignore?

I haven't read 69,140 of anything.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Either they need to reorder their priorities, or they need to acknowledge that their priorities are not accurately described.