Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

*This might be Michael Moore's most cynical bit of PT Barnum sleaze, and it shows how objectively stupid many Bush haters were that such a narrative took hold.

worse than the connections between bush and the saudi families that started his movie? Moore stole that from ickes- it's straight from bridge of love.com I shit you not.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

More security theater. "...the Resistance really manhandled my Resistance..."

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

but Dems come through the rust belt and promise the jobs are coming back, so that becomes one of those promises that adder believes were fully met.

Can you blame them? McCain was honest with Michigan. Romney promised them $20bil in subsidies. Recall who trounced whom in that primary?

But urrr jobs! We want urrrr jobs back! They took urrr jobs! That's the voter these politicians have to play to. No choice but to lie because those obsolete people don't want to hear anything about the reality of how fucked they are, and why it's their own fault for not seeing it coming.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I still don't get what people wanted the government to do about the BP blow-out. In my experience, the people who repeat this charge as if it really says something about Obama are the same people who will happily tell you in other circumstances that the government can't do things nearly as well as private industry and should be privatized. Our government doesn't do deep-water oil drilling. By necessity, BP had to do the work. The only alternative was nationalizing the necessary facilities, something no one thinks should have been done.

If Obama'd spent our money fixing it they'd have screamed about how he was subsidizing foreign companies (nevermind BP's rig was owned by a US division of the company and employed Americans). And when he went out and got a $20bil fund to compensate people, the same assholes who'd have made that criticism shit on him for that.

The bottom line is, there are people on the left and right - and a whole lot of them - who don't give a fuck about facts. They just want their tribe to win and they don't give a fuck how intellectually vacant and hypocritical they sound pushing toward that end. Tribe-think. It's humanity's Achilles' Heel, the biggest speedbump in Evolution.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

you are also more cutting to me when I carry a Jewish avatar. why is that?

I wasn't trying to be cutting. Sorry. Here, have a laugh and read the security theater thing.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Of course, his opponent in the election was born abroad. We've had some fairly cosmopolitan presidents with some fairly fancy backgrounds.

Growing up the child of a single mom, (i) in part in Hawaii, which has a tangibly distinctive culture from the mainland US, and is in some part almost third worldish, and yet where he went to the most exclusive independent school in the Islands (and fairly exclusive by standards of independent schools, excepting the east coast, which has an intensified flavor of exclusivity), and (ii) in part in Indonesia, which is a third world country and, I'll go out on a limb here, definitely has a distinctive culture as compared with the US or other "western" countries; seems sort of unusual to me as compared with the average american born in the US and even in comparison to the fancy backgrounds of the presidents of the last 60 years or so.

I'm good with celebrating diversity, and in order to do that you have to acknowledge that it exists, and it seems to me that Obama had a diverse upbringing. No?

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

This is the kind of self-referential hokum that makes the news so hard to watch. The polls put Obama and the Democrats exactly where you would expect, given the circumstance (the economy, two years into a presidency). As Adder said yesterday, Obama polls where Reagan did at this point. But a lot of people have something invested in needing to ignore this -- the media need to sell ads, conservatives want to believe that Obama's platform is unpopular -- so they do.

eta: or maybe it was Gatti

So just because Reagan had similarly low numbers at the same point in his presidency justifies their management of perceptions? Maybe Reagan's team fucked up too, is that possible? Let's call David Stockman and ask him if Reagan made any mistakes in the first couple of years. Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I were president I would shoot for a higher ideal rather than marginalizing my expectations to the mediocrity of my predecessors. You goal setting may be done differently.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

Growing up the child of a single mom, (i) in part in Hawaii, which has a tangibly distinctive culture from the mainland US, and is in some part almost third worldish, and yet where he went to the most exclusive independent school in the Islands (and fairly exclusive by standards of independent schools, excepting the east coast, which has an intensified flavor of exclusivity), and (ii) in part in Indonesia, which is a third world country and, I'll go out on a limb here, definitely has a distinctive culture as compared with the US or other "western" countries; seems sort of unusual to me as compared with the average american born in the US and even in comparison to the fancy backgrounds of the presidents of the last 60 years or so.

I'm good with celebrating diversity, and in order to do that you have to acknowledge that it exists, and it seems to me that Obama had a diverse upbringing. No?

He's about as exotic as a fucking cheeseburger. Hawaii a unique culture? The perpetual knock on the place is that it's hideously over-Americanized. And it is.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I have news for you: Bush would've been forced to bail out Detroit. And he'd have done it. We could not allow 1 million jobs tied to that industry to evaporate and drag us into 12% official unemployment. Again, spending $50bil to avoid financial disaster was not a bad purchase.
.

A leader/stateman willing to take the heat of short term repercussions in the interest of what is best for the long term (i.e shedding or appropriately allowing the slimming of a failed and dead industry) would have passed on the bail out. Bush was not that man, so I expect you are correct. Doesn't justify the policy.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The bottom line is, there are people on the left and right - and a whole lot of them - who don't give a fuck about facts. They just want their tribe to win and they don't give a fuck how intellectually vacant and hypocritical they sound pushing toward that end. Tribe-think. It's humanity's Achilles' Heel, the biggest speedbump in Evolution.

Same as it ever was.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

So just because Reagan had similarly low numbers at the same point in his presidency justifies their management of perceptions? Maybe Reagan's team fucked up too, is that possible? Let's call David Stockman and ask him if Reagan made any mistakes in the first couple of years. Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I were president I would shoot for a higher ideal rather than marginalizing my expectations to the mediocrity of my predecessors. You goal setting may be done differently.

I care much more about their management of reality than their management of perceptions. I think Obama fucked up by appointing a conservative Republican, Ben Bernanke, to the most important economic policy job in the country. I think he set the bar too low on stimulus and didn't come away with enough. I think his administration fucked up the HAMP program. Those are all things that really matter. How he managed perceptions? Really?

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Some of the stupidest criticisms of the last decade would be (in no order):

- Bush was responsible for Katrina being worse than it was;
- Bush's continuing to read a children's book when the towers were hit on 9/11 shows he was dumbfounded and incompetent;*
- Obama was responsible for making the BP oil spill worse;
- The banks alone caused the economic meltdown;
- Barney Frank, Fannie Mae and Clinton alone caused the economic meltdown;
- The economy would've rebounded but for HCReform's passage;
- Obama is a closet socialist;
- Obama is anti-business

These things are not true.

*This might be Michael Moore's most cynical bit of PT Barnum sleaze, and it shows how objectively stupid many Bush haters were that such a narrative took hold.

By omission, I am assuming you are okay with the notion that but for Hillary's carpet bagging occupancy of the NY Senate seat, the Yankees would have won one or more World Series between 2001-2008?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0

Growing up the child of a single mom, (i) in part in Hawaii, which has a tangibly distinctive culture from the mainland US, and is in some part almost third worldish, and yet where he went to the most exclusive independent school in the Islands (and fairly exclusive by standards of independent schools, excepting the east coast, which has an intensified flavor of exclusivity), and (ii) in part in Indonesia, which is a third world country and, I'll go out on a limb here, definitely has a distinctive culture as compared with the US or other "western" countries; seems sort of unusual to me as compared with the average american born in the US and even in comparison to the fancy backgrounds of the presidents of the last 60 years or so.

I'm good with celebrating diversity, and in order to do that you have to acknowledge that it exists, and it seems to me that Obama had a diverse upbringing. No?

I went to Choate

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I went to Choate

Check those old hockey sticks in your garage. Some say cocaine goes bad after time. I think it might age to higher purity, like scotch or wine.

[Penske 2.0]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

He's about as exotic as a fucking cheeseburger. Hawaii a unique culture? The perpetual knock on the place is that it's hideously over-Americanized. And it is.

For tourists you are correct. Have you spent much time on any of the islands living with locals or do you know many people who grew up there? There is a tremendous economic stratification. Further, media and retail culture were different when he grew up. there was no internet and not every town had a starbucks, walmart and mcdonalds.